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Does steering while on Autosteer do anything?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by jldf310, Apr 5, 2017.

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  1. jldf310

    jldf310 Member

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    Sorry if this has been previously discussed but I can't find anything.

    While driving with Autosteer engaged (HW2/AP2) I find myself 'nudging' the steering wheel in an attempt to keep the car centered in the lane when it drifts. At times I feel like it actually helps and I times I think that it doesn't do anything.

    So, what's the general consensus - does steering (or nudging) while on Autosteer actually do anything (other than disengage)?
     
  2. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    It will move the car a tiny bit. Autopilot never physically disengages the manual controls.
     
  3. davinci2017

    davinci2017 Member

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    You still have control of the car, you have to fight the motors a bit to make it do what you want though, but its not like AP disables physical input.
     
  4. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    It moves the car a tiny bit but if your command deviates more than slightly from what the computer wants to do, AP will disengage. And that delta isn't based off steering position. It's based off the difference in torque (direction and force) between your command and what the car wants.

    So if there's a car beside you, you can gently push the steering wheel in the other direction. If AP even barely tries to move towards the other car it will instantly disengage without any movement.
     
  5. kavyboy

    kavyboy Member

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    On AP1, at least, it seems there's a confidence factor as well. Traveling a straight, well marked highway behind another car and you can torque it quite a bit more than a twisty, country road where it's working hard to find a line. At least, it seems that way to me. My loaner would also clearly disengage more easily than my regular car, so there's that, too.
     
  6. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    On AP1, by carefully nudging the car while on AP, I could get it to move about half way over to the next lane (so what, about 6' off-center?) before AP1 gets confused disengaged.
     
  7. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    On my AP1, nudging the wheels does absolutely nothing, until I nudge it enough to disengage Autosteer, and then the car moves.

    I would love to be able to nudge it slightly to the left or right when passing other cars when using Autosteer. I find it gets awfully close to cars in the right lane when passing them, I'd like to nudge and give the car being passed a little more space.
     
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  8. OBX John

    OBX John Autonomous Driving Enthusiast

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    I get about six inches of movement on the road before autosteer disengages on AP2. It is useful for passing pedestrians and getting around some curves. I wish there was an option for a bit more movement, but I can see how that might make disengaging less predictable.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    I had this discussion in the v8.0 thread (maybe it wasn't you and me, but me and someone else). I posted a video, of me driving half way into the next lane with AP engaged.

    You need to apply light pressure, light enough to not disengage AP, but strong enough to where you nudge the car over, and hold it at that exact spot. Some people don't seem to be capable of maintaining that specific amount of pressure.

    Is there a point of doing it other than to prove it's possible? Not really. It's much easier to disengage AP and then re-engage it when needed.

    But it is possible to "nudge" the car on AP1.
     
  10. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    We must have different AP1s then. Because nothing I can do will nudge or move the car while AP is engaged.. any pressure inbetween zero and what's needed to disengage AP has no affect on the steering. None. For me it's either AP engaged and take zero input from the driver, or AP disengaged. There is nothing in-between, and believe me,I've tried.
     
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  11. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    There is a point -- I like to give cars I'm passing on the left or right a little more buffer zone that AP1 allows. Especially when passing cars on the left, AP1 seems to trim to the right side of the lane, passing these cars very closely -- to close for my comfort. I've tried "nudging" the car while AP is engaged during these maneuvers, and it just does not move at all. Slowly increasing pressure does nothing, until I reach the point where it disengages alltogether.
     
  12. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    I can nudge mine, but the directional change feels different than manual steering.

    Others in this thread are describing that they nudge the wheel and the mechanical linkage of the steering column slightly shifts the wheels, causing the vehicle to move slightly. On mine, it feels different. I feel that nudging the wheel causes torque input to AP, which AP combines with it's logic of where to steer the car, and then AP begins to steer the car slightly in the direction I'm nudging it. However, it will begin to resist more and more as the vehicle gets off the calculated steering path.

    Imagine a ball bearing at the bottom of a U-shaped trough. I can nudge the ball bearing to one side, but gravity makes it want to return to the exact middle of the bottom of the trough. The more you nudge the ball to one side, the more force that the ball wants to return to center. This is what nudging AP1 feels like to me. It varies, but I can get 1-2 feet of movement before the my force on the steering wheel is enough to disengage AP.
     
  13. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    All I can tell you is that my car does not move when nudged. Not one inch.
     
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  14. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    This. Exactly this.

    You described exactly what I meant. It's not so much that I'm nudging it over directly, it's that the AP1 is fighting the torque I'm applying to the wheel, and indirectly moving over to the edge of the lane and then over to the next lane. It's not instant.

    You can't do this with AP1. With the nudging I described (and then SomeJoe7777) it takes maybe 15 seconds to move to the center of the next lane (6'?), so if you're trying to nudge while passing a car (which you do in what, a couple seconds?) no amount of nudging will keep AP1 engaged and let you shift to the edge of the lane.

    My point with that rhetorical question was that it's possible to do (at least on my car), but it's only merit is a scientific experiment, not to aide daily driving.
     
  15. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    Back when AP1 used to dive for exit ramps, i would "pre-nudge" the car towards the left before an exit ramp came up if I was on AP in the right lane. The nudge arrested the dive movement towards the exit ramp enough to keep the vehicle in the right lane without having to disengage AP. I haven't had to do this in several months, though.
     
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  16. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Ok, so you're saying there's ~15 second delay in the nudge having any effect?

    I'll give that a shot later. Today when on the highway, any nudge I tried (even very lightly) the AP resisted it in the steering wheel, and as I increased pressure very slowly, the AP was very quick to disengage, almost like a hair-trigger.
     
  17. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    It took me about 15 seconds to move half way over to the next lane (at that point AP1 got confused, threw the red hands at me, and told me to take over -- this was also an experiment done many updates ago, so maybe they changed the behavior, YMMV). Keep constant pressure right below the point that AP disengages, but it give it some time.

    Don't apply more pressure, I think that's the key. Apply constant pressure. AP will start fighting you, but keep the pressure constant (don't try to overpower AP).

    I found one of the videos I took (this shows me crossing over, not halfway into the other lane, but gives you a general idea. Took 7 seconds) -- this was back in October: View My Video (hold on, video didn't upload for some reason, let me try a different server)
     
  18. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    Eh, tinypic is acting up, Hank I'll send you a PM with the video.
     
  19. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Got it, thanks. No way my AP1 would allow me to do that (drift across the line) But I'll try it again later.
     
  20. IT Geek

    IT Geek Member

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    Wasn't it true for the AP1 cars that if you had to correct them (thus disengaging AP) that the car would take and send a snapshot of what just happened up to Tesla? Does anyone know if that's still true on the AP2 cars? I was driving mine (AP2) the other day and three times on a 50 mile drive it got a bit closer than I would have liked while the car was going around a long curve. I'm hoping that the cars do still send the data up...because I'd like to see this behavior improved.
     

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