TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Does Tesla have any intention to "share" their supercharger network?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Cwsnhri, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Cwsnhri

    Cwsnhri Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, Ca
    Other Manufactures have no chance to compete with Tesla without some kind of supercharging network!
    They don't have one so what are they going to do to compete?
     
  2. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    Delaware
    Tesla has on a couple of occasions offered to partner with others, if they contribute to the network in proportion with their usage. The ending of unlimited free supercharging may also make this easier.

    It'd be a good thing - more folks building more stations in more places. Until sometime later this month, there was nothing else that could take advantage of the power a Supercharger dishes out, and no other EV in customer hands that was really practical for long distance driving. The Bolt will change this, and would have benefitted from GM partnering with Tesla, had they chosen to do that.

    It'll be interesting to see if some competitors do join Tesla once the 3 proves the mass market potential...
     
  3. Chuq

    Chuq Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,075
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
  4. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    The superchargers can't identify the vehicles plugged into them and it's unclear if they could even update their software without a hardware upgrade to allow entitlement verification from the charging side.
     
  5. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    Delaware
    Umm. The little bit we know about the Supercharger protocols includes the fact that the first thing the car passes the Supercharger once digital communication is established is the VIN, long before charging starts.

    Admittedly the supercharger isn't currently doing anything visible with that information and folks have charged after passing it bogus numbers - but presumably Tesla is only one firmware update to the Supercharger away from having it locked down.

    If they came to suspect someone of spoofing VINs, they could even set up a closed loop through their servers where the car authenticates to the supercharger and confirms it's location to the server at the same time, to be verified by the supercharger through its server connection.

    Tesla most certainly could freeze people out if it becomes necessary for them to do so - and I'm sure they're watching metrics and will know if someone makes it necessary.
     
  6. Maximapolak

    Maximapolak Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    North NJ / SouthCentral PA
    If they can't do that, how do they know who gets free supercharging for life and who pays?
     
  7. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    Delaware
    Presumably they can control that on the car side, like they do which cars are allowed to Supercharge and whether you have a 60 or 75 battery and a 72 amp or 48 amp charger.
     
  8. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    The car knows. The superchargers have no clue. They can't even identify the cars plugged into the superchargers. They can see the charger rate of each stall but no data is transmitted over the connector. The cars choose how much they will charge and if what the car is trying to charge at exceeds what's available, i.e. due to sc issues or the other paired stall having priority, the stall will limit what the car can have.

    The system has to be able to function with the car not having any network and the sc location also note having any communication with Tesla otherwise you wouldn't be able to charge. The charging entitlement is a configuration flag in the car itself.
     
    • Informative x 1
  9. gregd

    gregd Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,219
    Location:
    CM98
    So, how hard would it be to build a 400v DC to 240v AC inverter, at, say 70 amps, so I can charge my Roadster? It'd have to be small / light enough to fit in half of the trunk, about the size and weight of an airline carry-on (so I still have room for a toothbrush).

    I'd confirm with Tesla before using it, of course, but not needing to update their back-end system (at least not currently) would help.
     
  10. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,981
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Probably somewhere in the 350 posts in this thread Supercharger for the Roadster (Elon said "No") that has been discussed. I suggest you post your question there, since this thread is about how other car companies need something equivalent to the Tesla Supercharger network.
     
  11. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    d
    Interesting. If that's the case, then they should be be able to update only software.

    Curious, what's your source for the vin being passed at the handshake??
     
  12. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    Delaware
    I'll have to go fishing for it when I'm at a computer, but there's a thread here from maybe a year ago where one of our forum gurus (wk057?) was trying to monitor the digital communication with the Supercharger.

    They eventually succeeded, and realized it was CANBus based, but weren't able to interpret all of the messages last I saw.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    Delaware
    Here's the thread - actually 2.5 years old, and it look like nic and wnb are the main experts involved, though both wk057 and Ingineer show up in the thread. Page 5 is where they start getting concrete results:

    Supercharger protocol for diy CHAdeMO adapter
     
  14. mrElbe

    mrElbe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,197
    Location:
    Stouffville, ON Canada
    According to the Service manager at Toronto Lawrence, he can see on his terminal the VIN of charging cars at the Supercharger. Some times he has phoned owners to move their cars after charging was complete and they overstayed for some time.
     
    • Informative x 2
  15. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,404
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    They will build their own. The cost to do so is a drop in the ocean for them. The Germans have already announced a pan-European ultra-fast charging network that is going to be much faster than Tesla's Superchargers, likely using 800v technology. If it comes to fruition, it would appear they are poised to leapfrog Tesla in Europe. The Germans are definitely coming and I can't wait for the much needed competition!
     
  16. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    9,047
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Tesla has long said they want to "share" their network with other vehicle makers. I believe simple dumb pride is what's preventing other auto makers from adopting the Tesla connector and associated standards.

    I would put money on Tesla developing a Tesla to CHAdeMO and/or Tesla to CCS adapter with the "smarts" in it to allow Tesla to identify the owner associated with the adapter. They could sell the adapter to owners of non-Tesla vehicles and charge a fee (perhaps similar to what is coming for all post 12/31/2016 cars).
     
  17. sorka

    sorka Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    Interesting for future battery developments as it would get twice as much power through the current connector size but the bottle neck right now is the battery but the bottleneck currently are the current crop of batteries.
     
  18. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    Delaware
    Yup. But it means much more/better insulation, and a new generation of silicon that can handle higher voltages (which is presumably more expensive and potentially more failure prone until we get it sorted out...)
     

Share This Page