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Does Tesla tell buyers enough about range?

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David29

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Aug 1, 2015
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DEDHAM, MA
I was listening to the podcast "Plug Your Ride" today, and heard the hosts criticize Tesla for "lying" about their car's range. It was the second week in a row they have made a similar comment. I was going to write them an email, taking exception to that language, and maybe tell them that EPA regs required posting the rated range (if I could verify that), but wanted to see what the Tesla website says about range before I wrote my email.

I was disappointed in what I found. The US version of the Tesla website states the range for each of the three models with apparently no caveats, no explanation, no reference to the EPA standards, etc. There is simply a flat statement of the range. I assume the stated range is as determined by EPA but that is not indicated. I looked around and did some searches in the "Support" page's search tool, but found nothing that gave any caveats or explanations of how range might vary by temperature, speed, or elevation change. The only hint at that is a fairly broad, vague paragraph in the FAQs about winter driving.

I seem to recall that the website used to have a page that had a range calculator that showed how range varied with speed. I could no longer find that. (Am I imagining that there used to be more information? I have been looking at the web site since 2014, and I am sure it has gone through many changes over the years....)

Unless I missed something -- and that is possible, but I spent several minutes trying to be sure I looked wherever a prospective buyer might be led -- Tesla seems to do a poor job of preparing new owners for how their range will vary, which could help to explain the numerous posts I have seen (here on TMC and elsewhere) by new owners complaining or asking about the difference between the posted range and their experience.

Tesla seems to have reduced the information they make available to prospective buyers, at least in obvious places on their website. If so, they are doing a disservice to those buyers. Hence, even Tesla fans/owners like Eddie and Justin of "Plug Your Ride" feel like Tesla is "lying" -- perhaps a stretch, but Tesla certainly could and should do a better job of informing people of what to expect.
 
I didn’t realize this until you posted it. The web site always used to state miles as “EPA range” or “EPA rated range”. The calculator was very helpful in showing expected range with HVAC on or off at different ambient temperature and speed, though as I posted in a different thread about this, if would have been even better if the calculator went above 70 mph. One of those “California-centric” things I suppose, but there are lots of 80 mph highways in Texas and other western states.

No wonder many new owners have no clue about what rated range means or even that the advertised range is EPA rated range. I may have been too harsh on new owners complaints, thinking they never even looked at the web site, without realizing that Tesla has removed this info from its web site! Tesla has been dumbing things down in trying to go mass market, but here they have gone too far.
 
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You know that and I know that, but most mainstream buyers don’t understand how or why it varies, and given the limitations of EV charging that still exist in most of the country, it would be helpful for Tesla to explain. They used to make an attempt at that on the website with defining advertised range as EPA rated range and the interactive calculator showing range reduction at various ambient temp and speed. It could have been done better, but now it’s not done at all. Elon talks about the need to educate EV buyers. Here’s an example of how Tesla is falling short on that. We know they can do better because they had done it previously.
 
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Why do you care? I have been in over 25 states, over 130k miles. Every trip the computer has been spot on perfect.
Range has too many varibles to list, but i will give you one ,,, SPEED mantained.
I make a high speed run of over 100 mph for 45 miles. AC on, it uses an extra 30 miles of range.
If you go on a 500 mile, use cruise control the entire trip. You might come close.
No one will ever be able to calculate range exactly.
 
I agree that Tesla needs to make it clear that the parameters used in deriving the rated range are dictated by the EPA and what the implications of those parameters are. As it is, a slew of newcomers are making false assumptions about how they can drive and still be assured of that range. The net result is scorn against Tesla when it's not warranted.

It's all about managing expectations.
 
To answer question posed in title: No.

The problem is that it is a complicated problem depending on many different variables that has no one-size-its-all answer. Few here can explain it clearly and succinctly, let alone the glorified iphone salespeople I have encountered in Tesla stores.
 
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Why do you care? I have been in over 25 states, over 130k miles. Every trip the computer has been spot on perfect.
Range has too many varibles to list, but i will give you one ,,, SPEED mantained.
I make a high speed run of over 100 mph for 45 miles. AC on, it uses an extra 30 miles of range.
If you go on a 500 mile, use cruise control the entire trip. You might come close.
No one will ever be able to calculate range exactly.

Why do I care? The basic reason is that I want Tesla to succeed, and I think (and hope) that educating their customers about what to expect will improve people's satisfaction with the cars. If people feel misled or as though the car is not performing as expected, that leaves the customer unhappy. And perhaps the car they chose is not the right one for their needs.

In addition, I care because I spend a fair amount of time promoting EVs at car shows and similar events and it is helpful to be able to point people to solid info about the cars. People frequently ask about range. But if the info is no longer on the Tesla website, I may have to find some other resource for people. The link above the explanation of the EPA testing is very helpful, but might be too much for a newbie.
 
So, they need to publish a range of expected miles, as, "90 kWh battery, 100-300 miles depending on weather, speed, traffic, etc."

It's kind of like gas car ranges. Nobody believed them, either. My Toyota was supposed to get 32 mpg. Did it? Nope. But my S matches the estimate to a mile or two if I hold the speed steady (TACC).

The problem is most new drivers don't want to read up, or ask questions, or find a Tesla buddy, they just want to sit in irritation, complaining about how Tesla lied to them. Somehow the early adopters DID ask questions and read parts of the manual, so were not disappointed at all.

I offered to be a Tesla buddy several years ago. Never heard from anyone. I'm still willing.
 
Another reason to care is that new owners are overwhelming the already overwhelmed service centers with calls like “I drove 50 miles but the car shows 80 miles less range. Something must be wrong with my battery” when they drove those 50 miles going 75 mph in 20 degree weather and blasting the heat. Buyers need to be educated so they know what’s normal and what’s not. Setting expectations, as @David29 said, is even more important now that it’s more mass market buyers who haven’t studied the forums before ordering the car.

Start with the basics— the Tesla web site needs to go back to saying tha Model 3 LR range is “310 miles EPA rated range”, not “310 mile range”.
 
Telling the consumer the truth would be too easy.

I get maybe 50% range during short, urban trips. And get as much as 93.4% of full range during road trips (accounting for degradation so far).

Very simple to quantify:

Charge to [pick a number] 90%.
Drive throughout the week.
At [pick a number] 20%, charge again.
Note miles driven - let’s say 100.
Divide miles Driven by net % used (in this case, 70%, so 100/.7) to get miles/full charge or actual range.

In this case, 143 miles.
Divide actual range (143) by 294 (max range at purchase) and subtract from 1.

There’s the 51% range penalty.

Most people have no idea since they rely upon what the car tells them.

Which is accurate only for miles driven.

Which is loosely analogous to discussing the length of one’s yacht. (LWL for the tax man, LOA rounded up at cocktail parties).
 
I’ve never thought it was Toyota’s responsibility to explain to me why my “27 mpg highway” Highlander has never gotten more than 21 mpg in 3 years and 70,000 miles.

Range and efficiency are estimates based on constant conditions and are far more useful for comparing one model to another vs. what to expect in real world circumstances. I would think that anyone who has purchased an automobile in the last 30 years should understand that by now, but it’s come to my attention I tend to expect an unreasonable amount of common sense from humanity in most situations.
 
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I’ve never thought it was Toyota’s responsibility to explain to me why my “27 mpg highway” Highlander has never gotten more than 21 mpg in 3 years and 70,000 miles.

Range and efficiency are estimates based on constant conditions and are far more useful for comparing one model to another vs. what to expect in real world circumstances.
Let's be real, though. Yeah, people's driving is always a bit under gas car's mileage estimates. That's fine, and that's true for all gas cars. But it is an entirely different animal how drastically cold affects efficiency for electric cars, which is nothing like people have ever experienced with all of their previous gas cars. So I do want to grant some slack that this is unlike the kind of "it varies" level of common sense they have been able to apply to their vehicles before if this is their first electric car. 30% to 40% low is not just some little thing; it's surprising.
 
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I’m not sure why so many people complain of the range of their Tesla. I have had mine over 2 years and usually drive the speed limit plus 5 in town and out. I’m averaging 271 wh per mile and even at 80 clock less than 300 wh per mile. I don’t know how people can average what they say they do and keep their license.