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Does the 85 Battery have a SuperCharger counter and what is it?

Galve2000

Active Member
May 20, 2013
1,037
370
NYC
A few months ago an urban charger opened up in the Williamsburg neighborhood of brooklyn roughly 6 miles from both my home and my office and over the past few weeks has become my go-to supercharger for quick top ups. I am an apartment dweller and while I generally like to charge at Destination chargers when I can help it I am running up against the problem of destination charger congestion that has recently been exacerbated by the cold temperatures we are facing here in NYC.

I used the urban charger in williamsburg last friday after work b/c parking only costs $5 for the 1st hour and I was able to get a bite to eat and have a glass of wine while the car charged up. given that it is the only supercharger that I can get to from home or work that doesn't require a hefty toll (or sitting in traffic for an hour in each direction like the JFK supercharger, which is also toll-free) $5 seems like a small, worthwhile price to pay.

This week has been an interesting case study in destination charger congestion. when I dropped off my car at the garage on sunday evening and asked the valets to plug me in i was assured they would do so but of course they didn't. The valet texted me on monday morning and explained that I only had 30 Rated Miles according to the dash and I asked him to hold on to the car but to PLEASE plug me in so i can get some electrons. 2 minutes later i got a notification on my tesla app that the car was plugged in.

I ended up taking the subway to work. It's not my preference, but it isn't the end of the world. obviously i don't like having a several hundred dollars a month car payment and leaving my car parked at a garage all week long to only use my car for weekend trips, but it general this is what is customary on the island of Manhattan.

meanwhile, back at the destination charger things are still less than optimal. unfortunately, when the car pulls the full 40 amps at this garage a breaker often trips and for the past several months I have noticed that the car automatically pulls only 30 of a possible 40 amps at 208 V, or roughly 20 miles of range per hr rather than 25 miles. These lots all have commercial power so we are limited to 208 -- although I sometimes see as much as 215 V at this garage. Because they serve a number of other Teslas, they generally unplug me after a few hours when the car reaches around 140 rated miles presumably to plug in another tesla waiting for a change.

The worst thing about this SCer (besides the fact that you have to pay $5 an hr to access same) is that the charging stalls are in an area with spotty internet service in the belly of this hotel and the app does not connect well to the car to get updates. I will say that I had the most trouble connecting during the very 1st charging experience at this location, and on subsequent visits I was able to connect although it occasionally took a few attempts and several minutes to connect.

A second negative is that on weekend evenings parking prices jump up to $30 for anything over an hour so you have to be kind of vigilant about retrieving your car b4 the hour is up so you won't get charged the exorbitant parking fee. ICE cars pay the $30 event parking fee just for walking through the door, while a Tesla that needs a charge will be granted the $5 fee for the 1st hour regardless of weather event pricing is in effect or not.

all of this backstory to say that it is often easier for me to just drive to the urban supercharger in williamsburg. pay the $5 fee for an hour of charging and get roughly 175 miles of range or (hopefully a little more) than it is to be constantly at the mercy of congested destination chargers.

but we know from a few threads on this forum that the 90 packs have a DC charge counter, and in the early days of the Model S Tesla engineers had unofficially (and privately) said that too much supercharging was bad for the battery. I generally use superchargers maybe 10 or 15 times a year in and around the NYC metro area on things like "Sunday drives" or emergency top ups when I have to be sure that my car has a certain amount of range at a given time. Otherwise I only use SCers on road trips.

That said, I have, in the past 12 days, used the Urban SC in Williamsburg 3 times! It has certainly given me freedom from being at the mercy of the congested destination chargers, and, in case it is not explicitly clear to anyone who has made it this far in this post, I do not have a place to charge at home, and destination charger congestion is a problem at the 4 locations closest to my apartment (although I would venture to guess it is less severe than the main garage that I park in to get a change.) But if I am visiting a 72 kW SCer twice a week, am I going to reach some arbitrary threshold for too much SCing. Poor @Naonak found this out the hard way. And I hate to think of how many people had small ChAdeMo stations installed in their homes or offices and were happily topping up at 45 kW without giving it a second thought. what happens then for some of us who are using the urban SCers that typically provide 66 kW?

so what am I too do? my car only has ~25,650 miles as of this writing and I hope to keep it for at least 8 years -- or another 5 and a half years from today. i'd like to keep it for longer but without a robust aftermarket for the myriad of little things that malfunction every few months, there will be little hope of fixing these items at a reasonable price outside of warranty. I can say that thankfully my 90% still hovers at 241 miles, and I often get 242 (and occasionally 243 miles!! if I have been driving carefully before plugging in to replenish) but given this musical chairs game at the destination charger my car has not been charged to more than 220 miles since mid November so its hard to say where my 90% actually stands today.

I can spend $30 for 10 hrs of parking at a nearby garage with a destination charger. but again it is considerably cheaper to take the car to Williamsburg and hang out there for an hour while my car charger up at the urban SCer. I enjoy spending time in that neighborhood, so it is to completely dead time. In fact 2 weeks ago when I 1st used the SCer in WIlliamsburg I was there meeting friends and decided to try the SCer out b/c I was running low on range and didn't want to risk not getting plugged in later that night at my regular garage with the destination chargers and having my car stranded there when I needed it. although I will say that WIlliamsburg is not exactly "close" to my home or my office, although it is no further than the next closest SCer which is Paramus, where there really is nothing to do but sit and wait in the car.

There is a certain joy to be had from watching the rated miles replenish so quickly, in a way that even a 240 outlet cannot match. the urban SC in williamsburg typically gives me 66 kW which is actually more than 10 times the power of the 208 V x 30 Amps i get at my "home" garage. but the question remains... am I doing irreversible harm to a battery I would prefer to treat more mildly?
 

theflyer

Active Member
Feb 1, 2015
1,226
2,464
Northern Virginia
As someone who also has less-than-ideal charging options at home, I've debated this with myself too. For me, the bottom line is that the car needs to be charged and from my experience and all that I've read, the most important factor is to not charge above 90%. Having driven almost 40,000 miles in 15 months, I use a LOT of superchargers but have seen only a slight degradation on my S85. 265 rated and I can no get about 262 or so if I wait for a full charge. There are Model S' with more than 200,000 miles on the odometer and which still have 90% or more of their rated range. Again, you don't travel 200,000 miles without significant use of superchargers.

So, don't charge beyond 80% if you can get away with it. Personally, I don't hesitate to use superchargers, just don't make it a business where you're doing multiple supercharging sessions every day, day in and day out, week in and week out, month after month.
 

FlyingCookie

Member
Nov 9, 2016
249
296
Nashville, TN
My car has 74,000 miles on it, and I bought it with 48,000 on it in September of last year. Of the miles i've put on it, probably 90% of my energy has come from Superchargers spread around the country. I, myserlf, have already put more than 10MWh of DCFC energy into the battery, and that's not even counting the previous owner. I've already exceeded the amount of energy that @Naonak reportedly used, so I think it's safe to say the 85 packs don't have a set counter. (Or if it does, it's much higher)

While the 85 packs don't seem to have a DCFC counter, there is charging degradation that happens over time. It takes the form of a taper that starts sooner over time, but it doesn't seem to add significant amount of time to charging. It's a gradual thing that happens over time, and it's not a step function like the 90KWh packs. @David99 has been keeping up with this for the last year or two on his own car, and can provide a lot of details. In short, I wouldn't worry about Supercharging the car regularly (I Supercharge, on average, twice a day).
 

Naonak

Member
Dec 22, 2015
797
1,279
Kansas
I'm curious as to how you put more than 10MWh in to your battery in only 26,000 miles? I have about 44k miles on my 90 that is 98% DCFC and I've put 10.2 MWh of CHADeMo plus about 70 - 85 SC sessions (I'll have to add it up), but the sum total is going to be less than 15 MWh with almost twice your mileage.

What is your average Wh/Mi? My P85 averages around 300 or so, give or take depending on the time of year.
 

FlyingCookie

Member
Nov 9, 2016
249
296
Nashville, TN
P85 averages around 300 or so, give or take depending on the time of year.

A lot of my driving is ~80-95MPH and in cold weather, lately. My average in September was about 320wh/mile but i'm currently sitting around 430wh/mile for the last 30 days. I was pushing 600wh/mile on a trip to Asheville, NC due to snow building up on the interstate.
 

David99

Active Member
Jan 31, 2014
4,856
7,164
Brea, Orange County
The reduction in charge speed is significant and it continues to drop. Just looked at some old data. 10 months ago with 110 k miles on my car I was getting 70 kW at 50% state of charge. Now (at 150k miles) I only get 60 kW. The initial charge rate right after you plug in is always great, but it drops quickly. I think that's why most people don't notice. They plug in and see the same charge rate as always. How fast it goes down people don't keep track of so they don't notice the difference.
As I said before, in my case it's taking me 20-25% longer at a Supercharger now compared to when it was new. The peak charge rate limit we see in the 90 packs seems to kick in suddenly when the counter hits a certain number. But the overall charge speed isn't changed as much. Definitely not 20-25% slower. In other words, the 85 might not have that counter that causes a sudden change, the overall reduction is more significant than with the 90 pack.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
8,271
6,227
Merced, CA
Surprised there's no mention of batterygate yet in this thread.

Bottom line is starting in May of last year with V9, there are all kinds of counters for the 85s now that will artificially cap range, charging speed, and power.
 

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