Does the FSD recall mean we're finally getting Beta V11? | TMC Podcast #35

Topics -
0:00 Stream begins
0:27 Intro
1:34 FSD Beta recall
16:43 Dawn Project Superbowl Ad
31:55 Hardware 4 leaks
49:15 Update on Tesla Semi
1:00:32 White House: Tesla opening up Superchargers to other EVs
1:15:41 Thread of the week: Another Direct Model X vs. Rivian Comparison

Link to thread of the week: Another Direct Model X vs. Rivian Comparison: My Personal Experience

Co-hosts-
Louis: @nebusoft
Mike: @SteelClouds
Doug: @doug

Producers-
Adam: @ElectricAve84
James: @scrapps
Daniel: @danny

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[2101Guy]

will the "& more" include discussion on FSD/AP nag removal by 01/31/2023 status?

 

[Massem1]

So the Tesla will now drive at regulatory speed on highways, not going 1 mile\hr above the speed limit - it will not engage in an intersection on yellow (even if waiting to turn left in the middle of the intersection?) - I guess Tesla drivers will be the quickest 0-60 in an empty shopping mall parking at midnight but the slowest vehicle on the road! I can only imagine the frustrated drivers behind me…I mean behind all 365,000 + FSD Beta drivers

 

[SilverStar]

So the Tesla will now drive at regulatory speed on highways, not going 1 mile\hr above the speed limit - it will not engage in an intersection on yellow (even if waiting to turn left in the middle of the intersection?) - I guess Tesla drivers will be the quickest 0-60 in an empty shopping mall parking at midnight but the slowest vehicle on the road! I can only imagine the frustrated drivers behind me…I mean behind all 365,000 + FSD Beta drivers

Surely there’s a comfortable place to land between that and me being able to roll the speed setpoint up to 85mph on my 30mph unmarked, shoulderless home street, FSD dutifully complying even through a narrowing, chicane bit over a creek until it senses the square 90 degree turn in the road?

PS I only assume the 85 part, but confirmed it will do 70 without a hint of hesitation in the chicane. I started dialing down the speed ahead of the 90.

 

[Massem1]

So the Tesla will now drive at regulatory speed on highways, not going 1 mile\hr above the speed limit - it will not engage in an intersection on yellow (even if waiting to turn left in the middle of the intersection?) - I guess Tesla drivers will be the quickest 0-60 in an empty shopping mall parking at midnight but the slowest vehicle on the road! I can only imagine the frustrated drivers behind me…I mean behind all 365,000 + FSD Beta drivers

I’m from Montreal Canada with 60m\h 100km\h speed limit! I might be old but I’m no grandpa on the road with my MYP+

 

[mtbwalt]

If you can set the cruise control in your (any other car) at 80 in a 30 mph zone, why not your Tesla?

It may be neither smart nor legal to do so, but that’s what tickets and consequences are for. Gimping the car in Big Brother fashion could easily be done on any vehicle with a Navi and speed limit map… and then we are fully on the slippery slope.

I can see such limits being required when the car is L4 or L5 because the car is the driver at that point and everyone is a passenger. But not at L2.

 

[SilverStar]

FSD is taking a swipe at being “L4”.

PS Isn’t the 5 levels terminology abandoned to its grave already?

 

[dgatwood]

Does the FSD recall mean we're finally getting Beta V11?

Betteridge's Law of Headlines says "no".

 

[gsmith123]

So the Tesla will now drive at regulatory speed on highways, not going 1 mile\hr above the speed limit - it will not engage in an intersection on yellow (even if waiting to turn left in the middle of the intersection?) - I guess Tesla drivers will be the quickest 0-60 in an empty shopping mall parking at midnight but the slowest vehicle on the road! I can only imagine the frustrated drivers behind me…I mean behind all 365,000 + FSD Beta drivers

What? Sorry, have you read the NHTSA recall?

That's not at all my interpretation.

Regarding speed limits: if NHTSA wanted to 100% forbid Tesla's from exceeding the speed limit they would need to recall production Autopilot too. They did not. The wording of the recall is confusing but I'm pretty sure they're talking about how FSD responds super slowly to passing a lower speed limit. If the issue were exceeding speed limits under any circumstances they would have worded it much more simply. This is totally reasonable for NHTSA to require Tesla to fix. It's not hard to adjust the deceleration profile and today it'll happily do 20-25mph over in places where it's not entirely safe to do so.

it will not engage in an intersection on yellow

Again, that's not what the recall says. It's not a blanket ban on ever entering an intersection on yellow (that's literally impossible if the light switches when you are say 10 feet from the intersection). It's clear they just want to tune the system to be a little bit more conservative on making go / no-go decisions on yellows. I personally agree, FSD runs yellows that I prefer to stop at.

The stop sign issue... I agree with you. That's gonna be frustrating. FSD today already makes full stops at all stop signs. Adding any additional delay will make this even more annoying. I hope Tesla can mitigate that by tuning the deceleration profile and creeping. By braking more abruptly and stopping fully at a point where they have visibility of the intersection (vs too far back) they can still put in a say 200ms pause when stopped while overall moving through the intersection at a reasonable pace.

The last item in the recall was something about turn lanes and going straight through intersections. I'm not entirely sure precisely what sort of behavior they're talking about so it's hard to comment. FSD has plenty of issues around lane selection, how quickly it switches lanes out of turn lanes, etc so hard to comment on that.

 

[DJT1]

5++ minutes late? Well, they have quite a ways to go to match Elon’s “next week”

 

[legendsk]

Where this becomes a real problem for me is, the car decides the speed limit is 25 mph, although it is actually 75 mph and most of the traffic is moving somewhere between 70 and 80 mph. Minimum allowed speed is generally 45 mph when the max is 75. I was okay with the previous version of software which allowed me to override it on manual control. Now it makes going somewhere scary enough that I avoid driving it as much as possible.

 

[danny]

Shout out to @jbrowdy for contributing what became our Thread of the Week: Another Direct Model X vs. Rivian Comparison: My Personal Experience

 

[LightProtector]

I wonder what the new FSD highway code will do to the 4-year old legacy Autopilot in cars without FSD. If they do replace it, I hope it's at least predictable like Autopilot is.

 

[gsmith123]

I wonder what the new FSD highway code will do to the 4-year old legacy Autopilot in cars without FSD. If they do replace it, I hope it's at least predictable like Autopilot is.

It depends on the car hardware. A lot of 4 year old cars don't have HW3. For anything pre-HW3 (so both the really old AP1 cars and the cars with the modern camera suite but a HW2/2.5 computer) I'll be a little surprised if they can run new FSD-on-highway code.

There's still a pretty large fleet of HW3 vehicles made after 2019/2020 (whenever they cut over to HW3) they have basic AP. My guess is after a while (months to years) and FSD-on-highway has proven to be both safer and not have significant drawbacks they'll update all eligible vehicles to use it.