Does the M3 need a Snow Mode?

[94jdh]

A few weeks ago I was returning from Oldham across the old Manchester road to Holmfirth. I'm running a M3P and had to stop in the snow on the incline behind a few cars that were unable to get any grip. Eventually after numerous attempts they managed it and it was my turn to continue.
Spinning wheels, crabbing sideways no joy, I reversed down sideways onto fresh snow and no problem getting going - it was the compacted snow/ice that was the issue.
Interesting afternoon as the next part of the road was blocked by a lorry sideways and a second road closed - ended up going over the Peniston road in the end.

 

[Adopado]

This notion of “snow mode”, if it should come, would no doubt be an adjunct to winter tyres for those who routinely drive in such conditions. Bear in mind that Bjorn was not even on standard winters but on studded tyres (illegal here) when making his points! Any improvements in snow handling are liable to be quite small without suitable tyres. Unfortunately even Elon can’t do magic even though balancing the drive delivery differently for the AWD cars may be worth a go.

 

[browellm]

Yes, tyres > all.

 

[spon88]

I personally think CrossClimates are an excellent compromise for the UK's climate for anyone looking at a single year-round tyre.. They've been shown to provide excellent benefits in the sort of wet 0-10 degree conditions that are prevalent.

The trade off is a tiny bit of summer traction loss and probably a small amount of tyre not, but not much.

This is exactly why I went for CrossClimates. They've been on my M3P for over a year now and performed well on the hottest days over summer. They are on 18" after-market rims which have also been fine, although not as pretty as the 20" OEM which now live in the garage.

I haven't had to use the car in the snow yet but test videos suggest that the CrossClimates do very well in those conditions. I'll maybe pop the OEM rims back on in Spring for a while and try not to hit any potholes, but the CrossClimates are now my default and have been pretty much worry free

 

[shuhockey]

Moderator comment - thread merged from "Ice!"

Hopefully the model 3 will get a snow mode soon.
Driving this morning with the family into the Peak District. Very cold and after lots of rain yesterday, it was icey in places with the field run off. Anyway driving along and just explaining to the family that there is always ice on the next corner and lots of accidents, so going quite slowly behind two other cars. The battery is cold still as just 2 miles from home. As I come round the corner I lift off (so mild regen) and the car drifts around the corner luckily nothing coming the other way. I was side ways for a second or two. The rear tyres just locked up due to the regen. I would have expected it to maybe do this for a milli second but I had to steer in to the drift ( luckily I'm a driving god!!). So just be careful out there. After people had calmed down I changed regen to low. The tyres are the factory fitted, so mostly summer tyres.

 

[browellm]

Tyres almost totally define what experience you're going to have in snow and ice. You can have the best all-wheel drive system in the world, and by all account the Tesla one is excellent, but it won't help you with summer tyres on. I appreciate there are features like regen that can exacerbate the issue, but tyres > all else.

 

[Alistairuk]

Moderator comment - thread merged from "Ice!"

Hopefully the model 3 will get a snow mode soon.
Driving this morning with the family into the Peak District. Very cold and after lots of rain yesterday, it was icey in places with the field run off. Anyway driving along and just explaining to the family that there is always ice on the next corner and lots of accidents, so going quite slowly behind two other cars. The battery is cold still as just 2 miles from home. As I come round the corner I lift off (so mild regen) and the car drifts around the corner luckily nothing coming the other way. I was side ways for a second or two. The rear tyres just locked up due to the regen. I would have expected it to maybe do this for a milli second but I had to steer in to the drift ( luckily I'm a driving god!!). So just be careful out there. After people had calmed down I changed regen to low. The tyres are the factory fitted, so mostly summer tyres.

To point out the obvious here, Tesla warn you in the manual to switch too Low Regen in icy / snow conditions.

On a side note, I had the SR+ out in the snow for first time few weeks ago, with the normal tyres, no issues really with slip-start enabled, chill mode and low regen. Even managed to make it up a hill that previous rear wheel cars have failed.

 

[Jason71]

To point out the obvious here, Tesla warn you in the manual to switch too Low Regen in icy / snow conditions.

On a side note, I had the SR+ out in the snow for first time few weeks ago, with the normal tyres, no issues really with slip-start enabled, chill mode and low regen. Even managed to make it up a hill that previous rear wheel cars have failed.

Isn't low regen disabled in the 2021 model? What does the manual say for them?

 

[Adopado]

Moderator comment - thread merged from "Ice!"

Hopefully the model 3 will get a snow mode soon.
Driving this morning with the family into the Peak District. Very cold and after lots of rain yesterday, it was icey in places with the field run off. Anyway driving along and just explaining to the family that there is always ice on the next corner and lots of accidents, so going quite slowly behind two other cars. The battery is cold still as just 2 miles from home. As I come round the corner I lift off (so mild regen) and the car drifts around the corner luckily nothing coming the other way. I was side ways for a second or two. The rear tyres just locked up due to the regen. I would have expected it to maybe do this for a milli second but I had to steer in to the drift ( luckily I'm a driving god!!). So just be careful out there. After people had calmed down I changed regen to low. The tyres are the factory fitted, so mostly summer tyres.

We all have to remember that regen is applying braking forces. However, the degree of regen is entirely under your control. If you have wisely anticipated your ice patch you just need to be at a safe speed and don't lift enough to introduce regen (braking). If you wouldn't have braked on that patch of ice ... and I'm sure you wouldn't have ... then neither should you lift off. I've been in icy conditions where lifting off even with a combustion car is enough to cause a slide!

 

[peej]

We all have to remember that regen is applying braking forces. However, the degree of regen is entirely under your control. If you have wisely anticipated your ice patch you just need to be at a safe speed and don't lift enough to introduce regen (braking). If you wouldn't have braked on that patch of ice ... and I'm sure you wouldn't have ... then neither should you lift off. I've been in icy conditions where lifting off even with a combustion car is enough to cause a slide!

That's right. I have had Crossclimate + tyres on an MS75D since November. Recently in the snow and at -8C they were good for grip and traction but if you lift off the "gas" anticipating a slippery bend regen could catch you out and result in momentary loss of traction. If you are used to an ICE car and assume you would to minimize inputs (acceleration or braking) on a slippery surface and just lift off the accelerator you could end up in trouble. Reducing the regen through the menu is one way of dealing with it - as is scrubbing off the excess speed before the corner/slippery bit, etc.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I was pleasantly surprised at just how well the Model 3 behaved in the snow last week, just on the standard tyres. Our drive is pretty steep, about 1 in 6 where it meets the lane, and a challenge even for my old diesel Daihatsu Fourtrak runabout at times. I only did a short (~10 mile each way) trip to the shops and back, and didn't push it (SWMBO was in the car) but I never once felt that the car was anything less than sure footed. The best feature, by far, was the response to the accelerator. I didn't remember to put it in chill mode, but was surprised at just how easy it was to pull away gentle, and frankly amazed at how easy reversing back up our steep drive was when we got home.

The i3 I had for a time before I bought the Model 3 was close to being lethal on snow at times, and hopeless at getting up and down our drive. The Prius's I've owned were generally OK on snow, and were a bit like the Model 3 in terms of having a smooth accelerator response, although not as good as the Model 3. This smooth response is, I think, the thing that makes all the difference when trying to drive slowly up a steep and slippery slope.

 

[bjbrown]

M3P in snowy Aberdeenshire. 19” BBS Alloys and All weather Cross Climate (Vreidstein) tyres have been frankly excellent. Low regen is critical, as is low temp washer fluid.

 

[Medved_77]

Slightly off topic so apologies but didn't warrant it's own post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotor...el_3_sliding_while_parked_ripping_my_charger/

The video on this page shows a model 3 parked on snow and whilst plugged in and unattended, sliding from it's parking space taking the wall charger with him.

I can't tell from the video how much of a gradient the car was parked on but it seems that under certain conditions, you want to be careful about parking whilst charging (not that returning to find your car in a different position isn't bad enough!)

 

[AlexMasters]

When driving in snow, ultra high performance tyres such as the Michelins on the M3P will be next to useless, 2WD or 4WD. Traction will be better for a 4WD but braking will be as bad, or worse than 2WD. When I go skiing, I can barely believe the traction and grip that full winter/snow tyres can generate. IMO, driving with summer tyres in snow can be extremely hazardous - the issues will appear when you're on compacted snow or ICE and encounter a downhill slope.

I had a minor collision in a Ford Focus years ago, from sliding downhill on a very moderate slope with no ability to brake whatsoever, thanks to ABS preventing the wheels from being locked. It was pathetic - I was probably doing well under 10mph, had next to zero braking and very, very limited ability to steer. 4WD with summer tyres improve acceleration and traction, but when grip disappears it doesn't help in the slightest. Appropriate tyres are the only thing that will help with this and I don't think I'd take a 'nice' car out without winter tyres on a spare set of wheels. All season tyres aren't all that great on snow - don't be too overconfident, but they are in a different dimension to UHP summer tyres

Regards,
Alex

 

[pow216]

4WD braking worse than 2WD?! Do we swap brakes for motors!?

My experience with all seasons in the snow has been great. Considering the very low percentage of the time some of us drive on snow all seasons seem to make a lot of sense to me. It’s almost always cold and wet. Roll on me being 58....

 

[NeilG40]

Before I jumped on the leasing train I had a Passat that I had a second set of wheels fitted with Vredensten Snowtrac 3's, driving in snow didn't feel that much different from driving on dry tarmac.

 

[AlexMasters]

4WD braking worse than 2WD?! Do we swap brakes for motors!?

My experience with all seasons in the snow has been great. Considering the very low percentage of the time some of us drive on snow all seasons seem to make a lot of sense to me. It’s almost always cold and wet. Roll on me being 58....

I was referring to my previous Subaru Impreza, but yes - a 4WD will either have a viscous open centre diff, or a LSD with an electrohydraulic clutch arrangement. On a FWD car, the brakes just have the hub/wheel to brake, but on 4WD the brakes also need to slow the driveshaft and propshaft, so higher rotational mass for brakes to deal with.

Agree that all season tyres are a great compromise, given our relatively few number of white days in the UK. Proper snow tyres are incredible - I honestly was astonished how much grip they find in the snow.

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

I run on 18 inch winter tyres on my M3P. It is solid as a rock. Went over some high passes in the French Alps last year which were very tricky for other traffic, but the M3P was amazing. Also sheet ice here in Scotland this winter, the traction control and the softer compound are very good, I have managed to negotiate roads where all the other traffic is in serious trouble. The standard 20 inch sport tyre on the M3P would just be a nightmare in winter.

 

[MP3Mike]

And it appears that Tesla has added an automatic "snow mode" now. Bjorn has a video on it:

 

[Adopado]

And it appears that Tesla has added an automatic "snow mode" now. Bjorn has a video on it:

I don't hold with Bjorn's notion of a "snow mode" timer. The sensors are constantly adjusting power distribution in real time depending on the changing levels of slip ... whether caused by a snowy surface or anything else. There's no reason for there to be a defined mode. The software may well have been refined to better deal with slippery surfaces but I don't think it's like a switch where you are either in "snow mode" or "normal mode". There's nothing in this video that makes me think it works in that way.