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Does your router need to be on 24/7 for all this to work?

Puma2020

Member
Jun 16, 2020
356
340
New Hampshire, USA
The FBI has recommended that people turn off the router at least once a week to have potentially clear any malware on the router.

I actually turn off my router when I go to bed.
1) don't need it to sleep
2) why waste the power (yes it's not much but I also have my TV and other things on a switched outlets, a penny saved is a penny I can spend later buying Teslas).
3) Avoids any potential incoming attacks during those hours.
4) As the FBI mentioned, it helps to flush things out.

Yes the data in the app will be unavailable, but while sleeping, that doesn't bother me.
The question becomes, does the Gateway (or whatever provides data to the app) store it for a while and when the internet connection gets restored, it sends that data to the cloud which your app can then access it?
Where is this cloud data being stored? Who is paying for that?
How long can the net connection be down before the limited on site buffer space gets overwritten?
 

NickFie

Member
Sep 28, 2017
518
546
Near Philadelphia, PA
Tesla prefers to send updates to your car when it’s on Wi-Fi. If your car is on your wireless network during the time your router is on, you will probably be OK. Else, you’ll be at the end of the update train.

Your car can hold its telemetry, then send it to the mothership when it gets connectivity.
 

Electrph

Member
Aug 29, 2019
273
157
Central California
OP mentioned gateway so i assumed meant solar / and or powerwall system ?
OP you may want to specify if this is the case and whether you have PV only or powerwall(s) as well.. since this effects reporting to tesla .. may influence answer to your question
 

jboy210

Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
4,826
2,969
Northern California
Securing your network from attacks is much more than turning it off the router. It starts by doing simple things like ensuring you have the latest version of the router firmware installed, use strong passwords (long and random) for the admin and other router accounts, and wifi networks. From there you can progress to VLANs, separate wifi for private and public, etc. And as the budget permits start adding enterprise/commercial grade equipment with better management and intrusion detection.

And to answer your question about turning it off, as mentioned above, Tesla assumes your TEG is available 24/7 and pushes updates on their schedule, not yours. I assume eventually their push will coincide with the router being powered up, but it might be a while.
 
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bmah

Moderator, Model S/X, California Forums
Mar 17, 2015
3,885
6,965
Lafayette, CA, USA
I think it's probably best if we stay on the topic of what impact being disconnected from the Internet will have on Powerwall gateways. Comments on router security and turning off one's router to prevent malware probably belong in a different thread, and a different forum.

OK. Many gateways are deployed with cellular connectivity as a backup, so the effect of turning off the router might be "no change at all".

The question becomes, does the Gateway (or whatever provides data to the app) store it for a while and when the internet connection gets restored, it sends that data to the cloud which your app can then access it?
Where is this cloud data being stored? Who is paying for that?
How long can the net connection be down before the limited on site buffer space gets overwritten?

I'm not sure how long the gateway can buffer data before sending it, or if it does buffer, for how long.

I don't know if the data storage is cloud based or not (whether it is or not is irrelevent to us end-users). It's an included feature of owning Powerwalls. I guess you could say Tesla pays for it (and indirectly you did when you bought the Powerwalls).

Bruce.
 
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Puma2020

Member
Jun 16, 2020
356
340
New Hampshire, USA
Thanks for the responses.
Yes, I was asking for the solar/powerwall pieces of equipment.
The car does receive the software updates relatively fine as the router is on for 14+ hours a day.
Being at the end of the update train is fine with me. I tend to wait a couple of days after receiving an update before installing it. Helps prevent the unintended brick. I did have one update that arrived, and then 2 days later disappeared, only to have a newer version show up a day or 2 after that.

I fully agree with jboy210's response on securing the router and have already implemented these as well.
I am not familiar with what TEG stands for.

I don't know if the data storage is cloud based or not (whether it is or not is irrelevent to us end-users).
I am "assuming" it has to be cloud based. How else can the app on your phone receive the data from your things regardless of whether you are home or not.
I do not think it should be considered irrelevant to the end users. There is so much information these days swimming around the net about you, that it could be considered a significant threat. Where is the data about me and is it properly secured and protected is critical to us lowly end users.

I feel sorry for the kids growing up now. They do 1 stupid thing in their early teens and it could easily be recalled for the rest of their entire life.
 

jrweiss98020

Tessa's Tesla
Jan 9, 2020
412
290
Edmonds, WA
TEG = Tesla Energy Gateway.

If you log into your gateway and go to the SUMMARY page, you will see a line that says
NETWORK ETHERNET, CELLULAR

If you go to the NETWORK page, it will tell you your Cellular IP address.

That means the data will go to Tesla even if your router is off.

I don't know what turning off a router once a week (or overnight) will do to clear malware. If there is any malware, it will restart when the router restarts. OTOH, rebooting a router occasionally won't hurt. Do you have a reference for that alleged FBI statement?

You are better off ensuring the router firmware is up to date, any internal firewalls are enabled, and UPnP is disabled.
 
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BGbreeder

Member
Jun 19, 2020
141
79
Bay Area
I would agree that power cycling your router isn't going to clear all malware, and that any reasonable bot net will be back at your router shortly after power up, as your router would be a known vulnerable site. Personally, I tend to be more concerned about "smart" devices, which tend to have poor security. For my two cents, power cycling your TV is probably more productive in the grand scheme of things.
If security is such a concern, investing in a good VPN will probably get you more actual security. If you are truly concerned, I would recommend upgrading to non-consumer hardware that has more active security built in, and is upgraded frequently. Non-consumer security is not amateur hour.

The devil is the details about what are the threats that you are wanting to guard against, and how your router and Tesla fit into that. There is a difference between trying to evade an offshore hacking group who wants a credit card number and trying to evade SPECTRE.

And yes, as others have already commented, the powerwalls will function for quite sometime without being connected, but Tesla apparently does reach out eventually as they appear to want the data.

All the best,

BG
 

darhall993

Member
Jan 24, 2019
126
109
Sandy Springs, GA
I think it's probably best if we stay on the topic of what impact being disconnected from the Internet will have on Powerwall gateways. Comments on router security and turning off one's router to prevent malware probably belong in a different thread, and a different forum.

OK. Many gateways are deployed with cellular connectivity as a backup, so the effect of turning off the router might be "no change at all".



I'm not sure how long the gateway can buffer data before sending it, or if it does buffer, for how long.

I don't know if the data storage is cloud based or not (whether it is or not is irrelevent to us end-users). It's an included feature of owning Powerwalls. I guess you could say Tesla pays for it (and indirectly you did when you bought the Powerwalls).

Bruce.
FWIW, I'm not sue exactly how long the data can be held locally but my Powerwall system held 5 days worth of data after a Tornado took out the Internet systems locally. My Powerwall system uploaded the Telemetry as soon as the Internet connection was available, (I don't have cell coverage at this location). I had power via Solar+Powerwall the entire time and could monitor via the local connectivity.
 
Mar 1, 2021
117
31
San Diego, CA
The FBI has recommended that people turn off the router at least once a week to have potentially clear any malware on the router.

I actually turn off my router when I go to bed.
1) don't need it to sleep
2) why waste the power (yes it's not much but I also have my TV and other things on a switched outlets, a penny saved is a penny I can spend later buying Teslas).
3) Avoids any potential incoming attacks during those hours.
4) As the FBI mentioned, it helps to flush things out.

Yes the data in the app will be unavailable, but while sleeping, that doesn't bother me.
The question becomes, does the Gateway (or whatever provides data to the app) store it for a while and when the internet connection gets restored, it sends that data to the cloud which your app can then access it?
Where is this cloud data being stored? Who is paying for that?
How long can the net connection be down before the limited on site buffer space gets overwritten?

Do you have a power wall? The answer is different based on whether you have one or not. Power wall has a backup gateway and talks over wifi or cellular. I don't have a power wall, so I only have the little black box that connects to my router via ethernet. Good news is, if your solar isn't producing, there isn't anything to report! I reset my router once a week or so, and try to do it during the evenings so it doesn't affect the solar reporting. Also, it only reports every 15 minutes with no power wall, so you can time a rest in between reporting, my modem and router only take 5 minutes to reset so if I need to do it during the day for some reason I'll time it in between reporting.
 

Puma2020

Member
Jun 16, 2020
356
340
New Hampshire, USA
No I do not (yet) have a Powerwall or TEG.
Thank you for explaining that acronym.

A quick search shows that in May 2018, the FBI and Dept of Homeland Security Started recommending turning off the routers.
The article I saw mentioned several brands and models. Yes, as you mentioned, all were consumer products, I believe.
I did not have one of the affected models but that may have changed now. Things are evolving.
I agree that just turning it off may not wipe a decent malware program.
However, since I also do that to save the minor amount of energy, it works for me.
Thank you for the responses.
 

CrazyRabbit

Member
Apr 21, 2020
343
110
Fort Worth TX
i run clearos as my router with openvpn for remote access. Linux kernel is much more readily kept up to date then router firmware.
i believe with wifi, when connecting your device to your network there is a vulnerability, i don't know if it is just the first time you connect a new device to your network or every time your device reconnects. if it is reconnection all some has to do is wait for you to come home!
 

gpez

Member
Apr 25, 2019
632
507
USA
No I do not (yet) have a Powerwall or TEG.
Thank you for explaining that acronym.

A quick search shows that in May 2018, the FBI and Dept of Homeland Security Started recommending turning off the routers.
The article I saw mentioned several brands and models. Yes, as you mentioned, all were consumer products, I believe.
I did not have one of the affected models but that may have changed now. Things are evolving.
I agree that just turning it off may not wipe a decent malware program.
However, since I also do that to save the minor amount of energy, it works for me.
Thank you for the responses.

Energy savings aside, the FBI recommendation to reboot (not specifically turn off) your home router once (not once a week) was for a very specific piece of malware and was not intended to be general or continued advice. In that one very narrow instance back in 2018 the command and control servers that the malware used were already taken down by the FBI, so rebooting an infected router would cause the malware to try to "phone home" on start up, fail, and then become inert. This WaPo article has the details: Why the FBI says rebooting your router can weaken a global malware attack - The Washington Post, the Wikipedia page for VPNFilter, the name of the malware, has details about the FBI recommendation (last section): VPNFilter - Wikipedia. Standard advice about securing your local network applies (keeping all devices up to date, watching for strange behavior, keeping devices off the network that don't need to be, etc). :)

That all said - I would guess that disconnecting your TEG or inverter gateway from your home network periodically would not interrupt your experience for the reasons said above. The TEG has cellular backup for data and can operate even without any local network connectivity ever assuming a consistent cell signal.
 
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