TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

Don’t order SR or MR if your winter is cold.

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by maroon555, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. maroon555

    maroon555 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Metrowest MA
    You should expect at least 50% reduction in real-world range due to decreased battery efficiency, increased need for heating, increased vampire battery drain.
     
    • Disagree x 44
    • Funny x 5
    • Like x 2
  2. Petrlol

    Petrlol Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    399
    Location:
    Ohio
    While I agree, I'm not sure at least 50% I would hope it's at MOST 50%.
     
    • Like x 3
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    12,062
    Location:
    New Mexico
    #3 SageBrush, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    OPs dogmatic statement may be true for short trips and extravagant heating behaviors.
    I live in Colorado and see about a 15 - 20% hit in range on my 45 mile work commute. Longer drives would be less.
     
    • Like x 19
    • Informative x 10
    • Helpful x 3
  4. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,719
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    Is 50% real for the Model 3?

    In our S it's more like 30% at sub zero. The worst we've seen was a couple of times when we were driving against a heavy rain/sleet storm with high and pretty constant head winds. In that case our consumption went up by about 80%, so about a 45% reduction. We had to drive about 300 miles in that, so we wound up charging a couple of times.

    One thing about very cold (<10F) weather is that when you start out after the car has been cold soaked, the battery state looks terrifyingly low. However, it does recover quite a bit after it warms up. Another nasty effect is that the car won't accept much charge until the battery warms. We've found that it's better to drive around for 20 minutes to warm up the battery, then plug into a Supercharger, rather than plug in when the battery is still cold.
     
    • Like x 5
    • Helpful x 2
  5. 03DSG

    03DSG Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    Messages:
    2,140
    Location:
    Ontario
    Even a number as extreme as 50%, which I think is highly unlikely, would still satisfy a lot of people’s daily needs with an SR or MR.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Disagree x 1
  6. neptunesfinest

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    NJ
    Agree with this. The rated range is drastically reduced in the winter. Honestly, the LR battery makes me a little nervous now that it's getting cold so I can't imagine having significantly less potential range.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Disagree x 2
  7. Boourns

    Boourns Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,549
    Location:
    Dallas
    1. Yes, you lose rated range in the cold. Welcome to owning an EV.
    2. There's no way it's "at least 50%" unless you like the interior at 90 degrees and drive 90 mph.
     
    • Like x 24
    • Informative x 2
  8. thefortunes

    thefortunes Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This FUD gets posted every winter.

    Here is REAL WORLD data showing typical range loss of about:
    40% below 0F (limited data, however)
    30% 0-10F
    20% 10-30F
    10%-15% above 30F
     

    Attached Files:

    • Informative x 14
    • Like x 13
    • Helpful x 2
    • Disagree x 2
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    12,062
    Location:
    New Mexico
    I am able to avoid this by timing my charging to end proximate to the time I will use the car.

    My most recent long drive was this week:
    We left at 6:30 am and 17F, car range 303 miles.
    250 miles later we had 13% remaining. In balmy weather we usually arrive with 22% SoC remaining.
     
    • Informative x 14
    • Like x 3
    • Helpful x 1
  10. maroon555

    maroon555 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Metrowest MA
    I had a BMW i3 before and the range loss in winter is similar.
     
    • Like x 3
  11. maroon555

    maroon555 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Metrowest MA
    This can’t be accurate. I will give you one example. Normally if I charge to 90% the previous day and drive to work for 25 miles I would have 80-81% left in summer. Now in 30-40F temperature, I will lose 3-4% battery overnight and will have 72-73% left after driving to work. I am only heating to 64F in my car.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. thefortunes

    thefortunes Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    "Can't be accurate?"

    So the data in front of you is wrong? (Or are you thinking I have somehow manipulated 30k miles of data)?

    Either way, LOL
     
    • Like x 8
    • Disagree x 2
    • Funny x 2
  13. mswlogo

    mswlogo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    MA, NH
    Your example almost matched what he posted exactly. How is it not accurate?
     
    • Funny x 2
  14. Trips

    Trips "Boring bonehead questions are not cool. Next?"

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    I am seeing about 12-15% difference from the cold with minimal vampire drain. Average temps have been 10-35 degrees. I lose more from driving 70mph+ then from the cold.
     
    • Like x 2
  15. Runt8

    Runt8 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,986
    Location:
    Colorado
    Over the recent couple of cold spats in CO I've averaged about 280 wh/m when parking in the garage and about 300 wh/m on the one night I had to park outside (temp got down to ~20° F). Usage generally starts out high and then goes down as things warm up, so the longer I drive for the lower my average gets. My normal usage in warmer temps is about 260 wh/m, so no where near 50% losses (more like 8-13%). I do keep it plugged in at night so I don't have vampire drain to worry about, but I don't bother timing it to finish late so the battery is still pretty cold in the morning.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Nocturnal

    Nocturnal Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,031
    Location:
    In the middle
    That may be correct, but based on the expected range on the battery indicator it's way higher. (battery indicator is not accurate I know) Last week on the highway using cruise control at around 70 I was seeing at least a 1.5 mile decrease in the battery indicator to each mile I traveled, maybe closer to 1.75. With 2 seats set to level 1 heating, and cabin set to 68. 15 degrees outside, all season 20"s.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. cleveland97

    cleveland97 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Cleveland
    I think it's important to distinguish between what range impact results from temperature alone vs. other things. If you aren't getting "rated range" in the real world at 70 degrees, it will look way worse in the cold.

    After 7 weeks and 5,000 miles of ownership my "lifetime" wh/mile is 289, and the real cold hasn't set in yet... Simple math says that at 289 wh/mile my total average range at 100% battery has been around 275 miles, not 310.

    I do a LOT of freeway driving for work and therefore speeds in excess or 70 MPH are very common for me. Cold temperatures make that worse. A cold-soaked battery and cold cabin at the start of a drive makes that even worse. Wet roads, wind, snow, elevation changes, and extra "cargo" can make it even worse.

    So it may not be technically accurate to say that cold ALONE could impact range by 50%, but I do think it's realistic to say that, in the worst case, your range could be impacted that much (or even more).
     
    • Like x 6
    • Informative x 1
  18. maroon555

    maroon555 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Metrowest MA
    Can you do math? I am using almost double battery capacity for the same driving.
     
  19. thefortunes

    thefortunes Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This is a funny thread.

    People comparing anecdotal evidence (this one time, in band camp...) to 30k miles of hard data to "prove" FUD.

    Yikes.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 1
    • Funny x 1
  20. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    3,613
    Location:
    PA
    Hence why I can't buy a X75D. just check my signature for real world wH/Mile. that was over 15,000 mile average...
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC