Cold weather hits all vehicle efficiency in many ways; higher winds and because of cars velocity vector 70% of winds are headwinds, wet or contaminated roads, and denser air. Many EVs and Tesla M3s use resistance heating which can be a big hit if you leave the HVAC in automatic which often will also use AC for dehumidifying. Use seat heaters and manual HVAC without AC if you can do so without car fogging up.
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Don’t order SR or MR if your winter is cold.
- Thread starter maroon555
- Start date
MTOman
Member
I think this data is misleading or at least it is not fully understood. — Using personal real world data, I recently drove 200 miles in Full Self Drive w/Nav in a Model 3 LR (fully charged) and finished with barely 4% battery remaining which is roughly 12 miles range. It was in the mid 40’s and still consumed 35% more battery than rated. While driving speeds and wind can factor in the loss, the opportunity for a significant swing exists and will require more charging for MR and SR. I am just glad I bought the LR.
I just wouldn’t want to be that one guy/gal who runs out of battery in the middle of nowhere because he/she doesn’t fit in the 30k miles of hard data ranges. LOL.
I understand that the main battery is less efficient with colder temps, but I do not understand why the consumption rate (Wh/mile) increases. Even after driving several minutes/hours (warm battery) and not using the HVAC (turned off), the Wh/mi still sits high in cold temps (50-60) versus warmer temps (70-90)......250 Wh/mi versus 300 Wh/mi. What is it about the cold temps that makes the consumption increase? Aren't the same number of electrons flowing to do the job?
I would think the consumption would remain the same, but the number of available miles would decrease...for example at 100% charge, the battery would indicate 280 versus 310 for a LR M3.
I would think the consumption would remain the same, but the number of available miles would decrease...for example at 100% charge, the battery would indicate 280 versus 310 for a LR M3.
One thing is the cabin air heater, that is constantly on. And the car loses a lot of thermal energy due to the cold wind.
The second is the air density. Colder air is denser and so it increases the air drag resistance.
Here you can see that a 32 deg F air is 9% more dense than the 75 deg F air. Density of air - Wikipedia
Air drag increases by that amount: Drag (physics) - Wikipedia and therefore the energy consumption increases by some 5-6%.
Third, winter tires are softer than summer tires, this may add some rolling resistance increase. This effect is negligible. And if you are on all season tires, the effect is the opposite. Except if you forget to check the tire pressure, because that will drop when cold, increasing rolling resistance.
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thefortunes
Active Member
Then pay attention to all the info that the car provides you. It's not hard.
We are about to do a 3,000 mile road trip (with a model S with 120k on the clock, in the winter, oh the horror) and I have absolutely no fear of being that guy who "runs out of battery."
Full Self drive does not exist yet, do you mean Navigate on Autopilot? There are many other factors involved in addition to temperature: what was you climate temperature set at? Was there any elevation change? Rain? Snow? How fast were you going? Highway? Mostly city streets? One long trip or several short drives?
You don't have to be a mathematician to ensure you have enough energy but you do need to be aware of a variety of factors and their impact on your range. It isn't hard and it gets even easier with practice.
You are out of your mind if you believe these numbers are remotely true. Here is the reality of range loss for M3.
70F 0%
60F 10%
50F 20%
40F 30%
30F 40%
20F 50%
10F 60%
0F >60%
Atari2600
Active Member
I drove from Columbus to Cincinnati Ohio yesterday in the mid 30s i’m using Nokian R3 winter tires and was pretty much at rated range with my dual motor. This was a 115 mile trip.
I did not use the HVAC at all and did not turn recirculated air on to avoid fogging.
My tires are at 45 PSI
I averaged around 62 MPH
I stayed in the right lane with the semi trucks and slower drivers
I used the seat heater.
Even after 100 miles all the dots to the left did not vanish.
I was driving in the dark so my headlights were on the entire time.
115 miles started at 200 range ended at 75.
This thread is full of BS. Don’t turn the heat on and you have the range. Turn on super inefficient resistive heat and drive fast and you screw your range. It’s that simple.
Edit: Rain and snow will affect range.
Jaguar
Member
So..
-10F 70%
-20F 80%
-30F 90%
-40F 100%
That means for at least three weeks of the year I wouldn't be able to get out of my driveway!!!
Who says after 0 it’s still a mostly linear loss of range. But I wouldn’t be surprised at -40 the car would be dead the same as other living things if kept outside without protection.
Jaguar
Member
I've driven a electric car for five years and it always been kept outdoors. Your stats are not at all realistic.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
There are too many factors at play to state something like this...and these numbers do not reflect our efficiency losses with our Model X over the 1.5 years we've owned it. Maybe the M3 has much worse efficiency losses than the S/X, but I doubt that very much.
I agree that winter weather can significantly affect your energy usage, but the OP's statement is rather general and not very helpful or informative. Rather than talk about range, I find it more meaningful and helpful to talk about energy use rate (Wh/mi) and specific circumstances. In my model S, I do see occasional energy usage rates as high as ~500+ Wh/mi on a particularly cold winter day, for a short trip. And if I make several short trips in one day, the energy use for the day can indeed be very high, because the cabin gets heated repeatedly and the battery never really warms up enough to enable useful amounts of regenerative braking.
But on longer trips, the energy usage decreases once the cabin is heated and as the battery warms up and regen kicks in.
Also, the OP's general statement makes no reference to temperature or to travel speed or other details -- obviously "winter" means different things in different areas of the country, and temperatures vary considerably from day to day, no matter where you are. It might be more meaningful to talk about the average energy consumption over a month or an entire winter (but maybe the OP hasn't had that long to build a record).
PS: The reason I do not find it very meaningful to talk about range is that I rarely if ever travel far enough in one day in the winter to challenge the battery's maximum range. What happens is that higher energy consumption rates mean that I need more charge at the end of the day. E.g., instead of charging from say 50% to 70%, instead I need to charge from 40% or 50% and maybe would charge higher, to 75% or 80% to provide a cushion for the next day. This is one of the reasons i keep my battery gauge set for percentage, not miles -- I do not want to get tangled up over how many "range miles" the car used to travel a certain physical distance. (I realize that some people may do more day-to-day travel and might need to concern themselves with range.)
This is the exact opposite of what you should do. If I had relied on what my car told me I'd have been that guy. My car tells me I have 200 miles left in range....next SC is 100 miles, not that much buffer when I arrived.
I was losing almost 2 miles off the battery for every one mile traveled on my last trip. 20 degrees, snowing, 71 cabin temp, 2 seat heaters, running about 65-70pmh.
I agree, in the Winter, you cannot use the mileage stated by the battery icon.
However, the Energy chart estimation is pretty close.
I am using the Energy chart, using the options of Average range and over the previous 50 kms (30 miles).
That is what I am paying attention to.
Vin
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