Don`t worry about battery degradation

[LV1972]

You will find out that your car battery will have significant battery degradation after using Supercharging network or using your beloved car in "hard" ways.

Well Carvana , Vroom, Tesla and Carmax absolutely don`t care about battery degradation if you sell your car to them.

My friend just had his car sold to Carvana ,M3 2018, he used Supercharger almost daily (work) , he got quote from all companies i already mentioned and guess what, nobody cared about percentage of his battery.

So if you are going to sell your car in 3-4 years dont worry about your battery, your appraisal quote will not depend on it

 

[kashian]

You will find out that your car battery will have significant battery degradation after using Supercharging network or using your beloved car in "hard" ways.

Well Carvana , Vroom, Tesla and Carmax absolutely don`t care about battery degradation if you sell your car to them.

My friend just had his car sold to Carvana ,M3 2018, he used Supercharger almost daily (work) , he got quote from all companies i already mentioned and guess what, nobody cared about percentage of his battery.

So if you are going to sell your car in 3-4 years dont worry about your battery, your appraisal quote will not depend on it

Just out of curiosity, what was his battery degradation?

 

[craigery]

Surely as the market matures, measured degradation will be the new “odometer” reading as one of the largest factors of a used car’s value. Just not sure when that will happen.

 

[laceyboy]

They will probably do it in near future if they read your post here

 

[craigery]

They will probably do it in near future if they read your post here

It’s honestly one of the main reasons I baby my battery. I also just find it a fun game.

 

[colea]

You will find out that your car battery will have significant battery degradation after using Supercharging network or using your beloved car in "hard" ways.

Well Carvana , Vroom, Tesla and Carmax absolutely don`t care about battery degradation if you sell your car to them.

My friend just had his car sold to Carvana ,M3 2018, he used Supercharger almost daily (work) , he got quote from all companies i already mentioned and guess what, nobody cared about percentage of his battery.

So if you are going to sell your car in 3-4 years dont worry about your battery, your appraisal quote will not depend on it

Another reason not to worry about battery degradation. For those of us who have leased our cars through Tesla, there does not seem to be any end of lease penalty based on battery degradation, unless they can somehow claim that represents "excess wear." This is a 2- or 3-year window, so a relatively short time.

 

[2101Guy]

It’s coming...

Battery Health Reports Coming for Buyers of Used Electric Vehicles

 

[Battpower]

It’s coming...

Battery Health Reports Coming for Buyers of Used Electric Vehicles

Thats interesting. With the battery representing such a high proportion of an EV's value, it surely makes sense to have some sort of equitable, transparent monitoring and assessment.

Not sure that as an owner I would want to be obliged to let buyers look up battery info, especially if it ended up with the independent 'assessment' not agreeing with my own opinion / evidence.

I certainly think there should be a mandatory requirement for EV manufactures to clearly comply with agreed measures of battery condition and to have independent verification readily available.

While we talk about 'battery degradation' as though it is a clearly defined thing, I doubt that is the case. Some older technologies might have very different deterioration patterns compared with current technology. Battery support systems should get better at keeping certain kinds of deterioration at bay and mitigate other negative characteristics.

Other apparent declines in battery performance could relate to charging or management electronics, or just use patterns happening to be less than optimal.

And ultimately, doesn't it just come down to having honest, enforceable warranties - at least for several years. After that, aftermarket warranty could pick up. Monthly fee against battery failure.

 

[jsight]

IDK, I feel like none of us really worry about this from a resale standpoint but rather a "get where your going without inconvenience" standpoint.

But battery health reports can only help the industry. I think a lot of folks will be surprised by how well they do over a lifetime and it will alleviate a lot of fears that buyers of used cars do have.

 

[Battpower]

surprised by how well they do over a lifetime

My 2017 Renault Zoe 40kwh tested by me and Renault at 97% capacity after 3 years 30k miles, so I think that's better than I expected.

 

[frankvb]

My 2017 Renault Zoe 40kwh tested by me and Renault at 97% capacity after 3 years 30k miles, so I think that's better than I expected.

That sounds too good

Do they perhaps have a 'hidden' buffer that mitigates battery degradation? I.e. the battery size is larger but they do not allow you to use it until degradation happens.

 

[Battpower]

That sounds too good

Do they perhaps have a 'hidden' buffer that mitigates battery degradation? I.e. the battery size is larger but they do not allow you to use it until degradation happens.

I'm not sure.

For comparison, my dad has same model, 2015, which had 22kwh battery. After 5 yrs / 30k miles, his is showing 73% capacity. I confirmed result using a tool similar to a very minimalist SMT called CAN Ze. I do not believe there is a buffer / reserve capacity, but could be wrong.

 

[frankvb]

I'm not sure.

For comparison, my dad has same model, 2015, which had 22kwh battery. After 5 yrs / 30k miles, his is showing 73% capacity. I confirmed result using a tool similar to a very minimalist SMT called CAN Ze. I do not believe there is a buffer / reserve capacity, but could be wrong.

Yes, sounds more likely you have taken very good care of that battery. My 2018 Leaf has around 10% degradation in 13K miles.

 

[vickh]

You will find out that your car battery will have significant battery degradation after using Supercharging network or using your beloved car in "hard" ways.

Well Carvana , Vroom, Tesla and Carmax absolutely don`t care about battery degradation if you sell your car to them.

Similar to where some of these buyers don't seem to care about trims/options either.

Mainly a factor for private sales at this point.

 

[PNWLeccy]

Yea I wish there were standard metrics for battery health like total capacity, battery cycles, kWh dc fast charged, etc. I think these will probably become more common as EVs go mainstream. I saw an article from Car and Driver(?) for a long term test of the model 3 and they cited 7% battery degradation. While I think this is a good thing to report, there has to be an accepted (EPA?) method of balancing the BMS to get these metrics.

 

[Battpower]

they cited 7% battery degradation.

And given that batteries 'age' / deteriorate in different ways exasperated by different use patterns, this is potentially a useless statement. Also, if you set out to abuse a battery in one specific way, you could likely adversely impact a particular metric.

 

[Mike_TV]

...nobody cared about percentage of his battery.
So if you are going to sell your car in 3-4 years dont worry about your battery, your appraisal quote will not depend on it

I've noticed this with regular ICE cars I've owned and sold over the years. Keeping meticulous records on oil changes, recalls performed and upgrades...no one cares about that when you sell the car.

How many miles and how old is the car determines most of the price that the market will pay.

 

[jsight]

Yea I wish there were standard metrics for battery health like total capacity, battery cycles, kWh dc fast charged, etc. I think these will probably become more common as EVs go mainstream. I saw an article from Car and Driver(?) for a long term test of the model 3 and they cited 7% battery degradation. While I think this is a good thing to report, there has to be an accepted (EPA?) method of balancing the BMS to get these metrics.

I saw that too, and a lot of people were extrapolating out from that to guesstimate the battery's lifetime.

 

[mark95476]

Bjorn's test after 14 months and 60k km with tons of Supercharging/DC fast charging on his M3P: 4% degradation.

We can expect the same from the MY battery. Very few people are going to put the km/miles that Bjorn puts on his car.

 

[lyrebird]

Short-term ownership certainly doesn't need to worry about long-term degradation.

I am not the guy who switch cars in such a short period. I owned my last one before Y 15 years. I loved that car and prepared to drive it for 3 more years before switching to Y. but the maintenance bill turned me down. I know some parts are acceptable as a 15-year old, but the mechanic shop was pushing me to change everything that is not perfect to brand new.

Right now since I don't drive much, winter+Work@Home, I set my charger to 15 amp. Hope it can further reduce the degradation.