Done with Teslas

[fcastrillo86]

Hm, that's actually a difference it seems between US and EU models - I was banned from autopilot for the rest of the trip a few times exactly when I was adjusting volume or speed by spinning wheels and thus didn't noticed flashing blue light.

haven't done this myself in a while, but IIRC the car allows volume control wheel to dismiss the wheel nag most times, but will still want actual wheel torque every few nags anyways

 

[iloveplywood]

haven't done this myself in a while, but IIRC the car allows volume control wheel to dismiss the wheel nag most times, but will still want actual wheel torque every few nags anyways

I'm pretty sure I didn't torque the steering wheel for fifteen minutes straight last night, just used volume whenever it flashed. I was using fsd beta not autopilot though. (I'm in the US in case that makes a difference)

 

[GregTexas]

So even though my hands are 2 inches away from the steering wheel I get nags every 20 seconds. My foot is 12 inches away from the brake. Should Tesla force you to keep your foot on the brake?

 

[SalisburySam]

This just in: Tesla now testing a new driver attention feature called "Mother-In-Law", where the car speakers are used to simulate a nagging Mother-In-Law sitting in the passenger or rear seats, telling you to "pay attention" and "what are you looking at?! watch the road!" and "oh my god, keep your hands on the wheel, do you want to get us all killed?!"

I’m guessing these “coaching messages” will come only from the rear speakers? Back seat driver syndrome.

 

[ljbad4life]

So even though my hands are 2 inches away from the steering wheel I get nags every 20 seconds. My foot is 12 inches away from the brake. Should Tesla force you to keep your foot on the brake?

Unfortunately Tesla and Elon cheaped out on driver monitoring tech. It should have eye tracking like every other semi-autonomous system. The belief that software can replace hardware is putting tesla down a dangerous road(pun intended).
Keep in mind that Tesla was forced to add the torque steering monitoring after the fact because of the many autopilot crashes as a result of people not paying any attention at the time (AP1).

in the years since, a simple eye tracker that cadillac, lexus, ford use would solve this keep your hands on the steering wheel with weight (just the right amount of weight) issue.

 

[Dewg]

Unfortunately Tesla and Elon cheaped out on driver monitoring tech. It should have eye tracking like every other semi-autonomous system. The belief that software can replace hardware is putting tesla down a dangerous road(pun intended).
Keep in mind that Tesla was forced to add the torque steering monitoring after the fact because of the many autopilot crashes as a result of people not paying any attention at the time (AP1).

in the years since, a simple eye tracker that cadillac, lexus, ford use would solve this keep your hands on the steering wheel with weight (just the right amount of weight) issue.

Almost Every Automaker's Driver-Assistance Aids Can Be Used With No One In Driver's Seat | Carscoops

Car and Driver finds that "determined fools" can easily misuse almost every advanced driver-assistance system on the road today

www.carscoops.com

 

[clydeiii]

Unfortunately Tesla and Elon cheaped out on driver monitoring tech. It should have eye tracking like every other semi-autonomous system. The belief that software can replace hardware is putting tesla down a dangerous road(pun intended).
Keep in mind that Tesla was forced to add the torque steering monitoring after the fact because of the many autopilot crashes as a result of people not paying any attention at the time (AP1).

in the years since, a simple eye tracker that cadillac, lexus, ford use would solve this keep your hands on the steering wheel with weight (just the right amount of weight) issue.

Can you explain the differene beteween eyetracking software and eyetracking hardware?

 

[gtg465x]

Can you explain the differene beteween eyetracking software and eyetracking hardware?

I don't think the hardware is actually much different, apart from Tesla repurposing a camera mounted at the top of the windshield that wasn't originally intended for eye tracking, and thus is not in the optimal location for it. Other systems put the camera directly on or behind the steering wheel, so they are much closer to the driver's eyes and at a better angle to see the eyes. Also, dedicated eye tracking systems always have enough infrared lighting to make sure the driver's eyes can be seen at night. I think Teslas from the past few years may have infrared lights for the cabin cam, but older Teslas don't have the infrared lights, so those models could never detect eyes well at night.

 

[clydeiii]

I don't think the hardware is actually much different, apart from Tesla repurposing a camera mounted at the top of the windshield that wasn't originally intended for eye tracking, and thus is not in the optimal location for it. Other systems put the camera directly on or behind the steering wheel, so they are much closer to the driver's eyes and at a better angle to see the eyes. Also, dedicated eye tracking systems always have enough infrared lighting to make sure the driver's eyes can be seen at night. I think Teslas from the past few years may have infrared lights for the cabin cam, but older Teslas don't have the infrared lights, so those models could never detect eyes well at night.

Ok so newer Teslas use eye tracking hardware and software and work just fine, even if camera placemat is non-ideal?

 

[gtg465x]

Ok so newer Teslas use eye tracking hardware and software and work just fine, even if camera placemat is non-ideal?

I think the general speculation is that it works, but not as well and reliably as cars that have it on the steering wheel. I believe Tesla uses it more for FSD beta than for regular Autopilot, but the fact that Tesla hasn’t allowed fully hands free driving yet may indicate that they aren’t confident enough in its abilities. Here’s an interesting video from a couple years ago showing what the car is determining while driving around at night. This Tesla doesn’t seem to have any infrared lights to help at night.

 

[SalisburySam]

…but the fact that Tesla hasn’t allowed fully hands free driving yet may indicate that they their lawyers aren’t confident enough in its abilities.

FTFY.

 

[ljbad4life]

I don't think the hardware is actually much different, apart from Tesla repurposing a camera mounted at the top of the windshield that wasn't originally intended for eye tracking, and thus is not in the optimal location for it. Other systems put the camera directly on or behind the steering wheel, so they are much closer to the driver's eyes and at a better angle to see the eyes. Also, dedicated eye tracking systems always have enough infrared lighting to make sure the driver's eyes can be seen at night. I think Teslas from the past few years may have infrared lights for the cabin cam, but older Teslas don't have the infrared lights, so those models could never detect eyes well at night.

Tesla uses a single wide angle camera designed to capture the entire cabin that has obstructed view depending on the angle of the rear view mirror, the other systems use IR sensors mixed with cameras that are dedicated/focused solely on a drivers face. No Tesla has IR sensors.

Not only does that effect night competency of the system, it effects the ability to pick up eye tracking behind dark sunglasses, in situations of high glare etc. The hardware may not be that different but the results are staggeringly different.

 

[clydeiii]

Be that as it may, at least in FSDb, they're relaxing the "torque the wheel" requirements and using camera to see if hands are on wheel.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Be that as it may, at least in FSDb, they're relaxing the "torque the wheel" requirements and using camera to see if hands are on wheel.

This is not true at all.

 

[clydeiii]

This is not true at all.

In my experience and the experience of others here, it is definitely true or at least seems true. I need to torque the wheel less, it seems. What evidence do you have that this isn’t the case?

 

[uscbucsfan]

In my experience and the experience of others here, it is definitely true or at least seems true. I need to torque the wheel less, it seems. What evidence do you have that this isn’t the case?

The camera cannot see your hands. It's not watching hands, it's watching head angle and eye location.

The wheel torque is proportional to how often and consistently you are looking forward and the complexity of the situation.

You are required more wheel torque in cities with traffic and construction zones compared to an open interstate.

But the camera watching hands is absolutely false.

 

[clydeiii]

The camera cannot see your hands. It's not watching hands, it's watching head angle and eye location.

The wheel torque is proportional to how often and consistently you are looking forward and the complexity of the situation.

You are required more wheel torque in cities with traffic and construction zones compared to an open interstate.

But the camera watching hands is absolutely false.

Ah yes this could be, I don’t know what the camera can see (haven’t looked at the interior video feed much) but my point was simply that they’re using internal video feed somehow to relax the torque requirement, which is a great thing. One can hope it goes away entirely eventually.

 

[nickkovach]

In my experience and the experience of others here, it is definitely true or at least seems true. I need to torque the wheel less, it seems. What evidence do you have that this isn’t the case?

With the last update (2023.6.11), I hate to admit this publicly but I drove 30 minutes on the highway (autopilot not FSD) without one nag. It must have used the camera to see I was paying attention with hands on the wheel. I think when I put on sunglasses that didn’t work as well obviously.. still probably got 3 nags in 30 minutes. I was worried maybe they disabled something - until I noticed the nag screen finally last week!

 

[GregTexas]

With the last update (2023.6.11), I hate to admit this publicly but I drove 30 minutes on the highway (autopilot not FSD) without one nag. It must have used the camera to see I was paying attention with hands on the wheel. I think when I put on sunglasses that didn’t work as well obviously.. still probably got 3 nags in 30 minutes. I was worried maybe they disabled something - until I noticed the nag screen finally last week!

Do you have > 10K miles on FSD?

 

[uscbucsfan]

Do you have > 10K miles on FSD?

Not real.