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"Don't Buy an Electric Car" Article from Fox

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Teriyaki88, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. Teriyaki88

    Teriyaki88 Member

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  2. EU-P1422

    EU-P1422 Member

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  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Some of his reasons are perfectly fine and valid, especially this one:

    but the article should be titled "Why I won't buy an electric car".
     
  4. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    10 acres? In California??

    The same guy was saying the same thing with the automobile was introduced. "Why buy a horseless carriage that requires gas when my horse can be fueled up by the side of the road at any time."

    He already has a solar system, so he could be traveling with at least one of his cars virtually without cost. But he doesn't want to plug in. :-/
     
  5. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    So some tid-bits

    And that 'way more expensive' food. That holds its value really well. And you wouldn't spend more on food than your Civic every year would you?

    Well cars kill 10s of thousands of people every year, so yeah they do 'hurt' people. I couldn't find numbers on chicken vs. car fatalities for some reason, I know my Dodge Neon had 1 chicken on it's conscience. And contribute a LOT towards air pollution. So yea your Civic meets the requirements. But so does a Hummer. So lets all drive Hummers.


    So on a Tesla forum this doesn't need comment.

    What about your 'car person' car. Is it cost effective? How about that organic 'way more expensive' food you buy? You just ruled out pretty much every vehicle out there except a Nissan Versa with that single comment.


    How is driving a LEAF not practical, in a way that driving a Civic hybrid is. Is that Panamera Hybrid practical? How is stopping every week at a gas station practical?

    I am pretty sure if you don't plug in your Hybrid at a fuel pump it won't go more than a few hundred miles. Much like my Tesla. The great thing is I can plug in my Tesla in my garage. If you compare the price of fuel you save driving a hybrid versus the regular version of most cars. You have to drive a LOT before costs break even. Not to mention you have much greater complexity that may cause maintenance costs.

    Well considering 100% coal they generally are 'greener'. And we aren't anywhere near 100% coal.

    The GEM is at the end. Don't believe in global warming. And don's spend your money on a electric vehicle (very close to 100% domestic energy powered), spend your money on helping people without limbs, that lost them trying to keep the gasoline cars I want you to buy running!
     
  6. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  7. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    I looked at this guys published history and he is solely *NOT* in the 'car guy' category. So there's that. I couldn't find an article that even makes predictions so he doesn't seem to publish anything of actual merit. Not sure why anyone pays this guy to write as it's all fluff.

    CBS MoneyWatch - Steve Tobak - CBS News

    Not to mention he's a long time critic of electric anything it seems: steve tobak electric - Bing
     
  8. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    And honestly what "car person" drives a Civic hybrid?
     
  9. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    read the title, saw "Fox" 0UShj.png


    automatically disregarded the whole article nf7U0.png
     
  10. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

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    Lol. That's how I feel about MSNBC... :)
     
  11. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    #11 TonyWilliams, Apr 26, 2013
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
    @101CommonSense

    1. We get pushed to buy "green" cars (it takes non-green methods to generate the electricity to power them -an often forgotten fact).




    Well, so far nobody is being "pushed" to buy any car. There are plenty of financial incentives to buy an electric car over a foreign oil burning car. The electricity to power the cars can come from the sun, wind, waves, geothermal, natural gas, nuclear and hydroelectric, as it is done in California. There are no coal mines and very little coal power in this state. Coal power nationwide is about 40%, but even with 100% coal power sourced electric cars, it's still cleaner than oil cars. All those power sources are made right here in North America.

    About half our oil comes offshore from places that really don't like us very much, with untold volumes of human rights abuses, past and future wars to protect them and subsidized by our US Navy protecting the shipments on the high seas. It's production into gasoline is fraught with pollution and also takes about 6kW of energy to produce a gallon of gas. A typical electric car can drive 20 miles on that power alone, with no oil. Our troops never died defending electricity, nor is it likely they ever would in the future. I can guarantee that future wars will be in foreign oil producing regions, and the competition for that product from China, India, etc, will put some interesting twists in price and wars.


    2. Our electricity bills go up because there is a higher demand for electricity to charge our "green" cars.


    This is just a bit non-sequitur. Virtually all electric cars are charged at night while the electric demand is low and the power companies are producing an excess. If we ever reached a majority of cars on electricity, yes, there will be infrastructure changes as there was for air conditioning in the sun belt (which use most of their power in the middle of the day at peak demand).



    3. Our gas prices go up because there is less tax revenue for states, so they need to raise gas taxes to compensate.



    We do need to raise the road tax on gasoline to pay for crumbling roads, but electric cars need to pay, also. So, I agree with you. Some states have already addressed this. Washington state now has a $100 road tax on EVs.



    4. We end up with higher electricity rates, higher gas prices, and "green" cars that require expensive non-green sources to generate power to charge them.



    I'm confident that you can see the folly in this statement. If any one thing in the whole world could mean "non-green", oil would be it. Electricity can perpetually be produced from green sources, as I noted above. Texas is already very "green" with wind power. Washington state recently passed their HUGE hydroelectric production with wind power production. Here in San Diego, where I am, we're already at 8% wind, and 1%-2% solar. Everywhere, even Fox News viewing states like Texas, can produce "green" power. No need to stick your head in the sand !!!!

    Gas prices will go up, of course. It's a limited resource. While you complain and blame it on EV's, your neighbors will be buying electrical cars that operate at 10% the cost of oil cars. When a catastrophe happens, and lines with gun toting gas car drivers looking for gasoline form, we electric car folks will drive by thanking all that is holy that we aren't in that line.

    Electricity is one of the most stable priced commodities out there, so I don't anticipate rate increases. Quite the opposite, in fact. I get substantial rate decreases to charge my electric car at night, and your rate can go DOWN because of it. The utility is getting money for electricity that they would not otherwise be able to sell.
     
  12. SFOTurtle

    SFOTurtle Active Member

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    Ok, there are a lot of ridiculous statements, but this might be the most asinine. Gas prices go up because of the finite supply and demand for oil. I would fathom a guess that 99% of the movement in gas prices is related to price of oil, perceived or real political instability that is likely to cause disruption in supply, and other supply shocks like refinery outages. And all of this relates to demand outpacing supply. The amount of taxes on gasoline in this country is far lower than in most other industrialized countries. So that he picks on cars that don't run on gasoline and will only reduce the demand for oil and gasoline, the greatest driver by far of price movements, tells you how naive (at best) or intellectually dishonest (at worst) the author is.
     
  13. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

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    #13 anticitizen13.7, Apr 26, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
    All the people I know who are "car people" wouldn't be caught dead in a Civic hybrid. It's a painfully slow car with an awful CVT transmission. Honda has been selling the things for 10 years now and they have only ever sold in paltry quantities. The same basic powertrain is used in several other Honda hybrids, most of which are boring and mediocre vehicles: Honda Insight, Honda CR-Z, and Acura ILX (hybrid). All of these cars are considered to be at best a bad joke by "car people". The less generous "car people" will call them a disgrace and stain on the honor of a company that built the NSX, Integra GS-R, and S2000. A real "car person" who buys Honda will, at a minimum, get something with a stick shift.
     
  14. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

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    That's how I feel about both organizations.
     
  15. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    That's how I feel about journalism.

    He wrote that his wife buys organic andthey bought an HCH. He didn't write that he drives it. He could be one of Hari Kondabolu's infamous Escalade Hybrid drivers.

    He's driven by money and his hot* wife is the environmentalist. Although she might not be. It could just be that they live next to an organic farm.

    He doesn't want to support disabled servicemen by paying tax so he wants people to donate to a charity instead.

    * This is a pure guess, but I'm guessing he wouldn't normally go for hippy chicks.
     
  16. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #16 SwedishAdvocate, Apr 26, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
    Ok, apologies in advance for deviating off topic, but I just couldn’t help myself…

    ^This. Here’s that quote again:

    I just find that hypocrisy outright appalling. Wounded military veterans have to rely on charity in order to get what they need? They should be entitled to whatever it is they need. And the only way to make sure that they are is by paying your taxes, and more of them if that is in fact needed. How’s that for a policy to promote FOX/Murdoch?
     
  17. mcornwell

    mcornwell Active Member

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    From LinkedIn:
    "Steve Tobak is a management consultant, executive coach, professional speaker..."

    That pretty much tells me everything I need to know about him. I've met many folks who add one of these titles to their name, and none of them worth worth their weight in salt...
     
  18. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Critical thinking? Hardly. I'm confident that the TeaBag audience will lap up every word of this, shaking their heads up and down while they're reading.

    For the record, there are many factual errors, but the crux of the article is what Steve Tobak thinks. Thankfully, he's welcome to think whatever he wants and act on things that aren't illegal. But, he can't change simple facts.

    Lot's of other "car guys" (and I doubt he would meet my criteria for the term) like performance cars that just happen to be 100% electric powered, like the Tesla Roadster and Model S. I'm quite confident that many of them have or have had many "car guy" type cars. Lots of people also drive practical cars like the Nissan LEAF, which only uses power produced here in North America that ZERO soldiers had to die or be wounded to defend.

    I do share, however, the views that we should be energy independent, or even an exporter, but I also want that to be sustainable for generations to come. Oil is not it.

    I think I would like to add a 100% electric Jeep to my fleet for mountain trails, and a 1940 Willy's Overland coupe with a 1000 horsepower motor, 100% electric of course, for cruising the streets in the summer and drag racing. And an electric dirt bike (ZERO or Brammo make them), and maybe an electric lawnmower, too.

    You see, I actually did serve my country (which I'll just presume Steve did not) and I have found that the BEST way to treat our troops is to not let them get shot at so you can drive your "car guy" Honda Civic.

    Read more: Don’t Buy an Electric Car | Fox Business
     
  19. augkuo

    augkuo Member

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    He lives in the Santa Cruz mountains (Scotts Valley) where a lot of densely packed treed, rocky and steep land goes for cheap. For example -

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/12260-Indian-Trail-Rd_Los-Gatos_CA_95033_M19199-10836

    "It isn't cost effective"

    One thing that doesn't get talked about too much is the time you actually save commuting in an alternative-fuel vehicle. Since hybrids are no longer allowed in the HOV lanes with a single passenger, you would have to either have an electric or gaseous (hydrogen/natural) car. Most of the savings in Tesla's True Cost of Ownership app will come from the time you saved in the commute lane/gas station trips. I don't think he realizes how much time/money he'd be saving if he had a car to zip around traffic on 85/101/880 and some local thoroughfares.
     
  20. GeekGirls

    GeekGirls Kid in Candy Store

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    Well then, he definitely has a few neighbors who disagree dramatically with his conclusions. We've seen quite a few around Santa Cruz and Scotts Valley, and of course they're practically commonplace in the valley.

    There are plenty of decisions in life that don't come down simply to cost-effectiveness. Having children leaps to mind. I'm not sure I could make a personal argument from a purely financial standpoint for buying a Model S — but I sure am enjoying it. I see it as a good step toward long-term energy independence, too, which makes sense collectively if not individually. I still wouldn't presume to tell anyone that they should, or should not, buy an EV.
     

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