Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[Knightshade]

I’m assuming hw3 consists of new motherboard and chips. I hope both chips (for AP and entertainment system) will be upgraded.

What about the cameras and sensors? It would definitely be awesome if those get replaced/ upgraded as well. I’m pretty sure they won’t replace those.

I’m torn with pulling the trigger.

HW3 is swapping the autopilot computer only. No change to the media computer or sensor suite per Elon.

HW3 will not include camera or sensor upgrades. My understading was it was just a graphics card upgrade to process video faster from the exiting cameras which in turn will recognize reality at a much faster rate and the car will make better decisions enabling true self driving.

It's not a "graphics card"- it's a neural net accelerator...though the current AP computer is using in part a GPU to run some neutral net stuff because GPUs make nice "generic" processors for such things.... HW3 is a dedicated HW solution (meaning it can do a specific, less generic, job MUCH faster for a similar cost than a generic GPU can).

That's why HW3 does its specific job 10 times faster but the cost is about the same.

You note these feature upgrades as if they are a given.

Have you seen, in writing from company management, confirmation that AP2.0 vehicles getting the HW3 AP upgrade will get access to dashcam & sentry features ?

Both of these rely on cameras that have been upgraded on v2.5 vehicles, and would definitely not be included in a HW3 CPU swap.

What about the camera handling color slightly differently do you possibly imagine would prevent it from recording the video it's already taking once the CPU bottleneck is solved?

 

[jkoya]

Well.....I just took a leap of faith and purchased the FSD upgrade for $2000. Spoiler/badges or HW3...what will come first ?

My account showed the FSD within a couple of minutes of purchasing...that was fast !

 

[jjrandorin]

Tempted to get FSD for $2k now for all 3 of my Teslas, but was just thinking it took Tesla 6 months to deliver a spoiler for my Model 3 P, that should have been delivered with the car. I do not want to be contributing to the thread "HW3 Has Been Out For A Year - Where Is My Upgrade?" 2 years from now.....

Really on the fence on this now.

Can I just compliment you on your vehicle names? . Love em!

 

[jjrandorin]

Well.....I just took a leap of faith and purchased the FSD upgrade for $2000. Spoiler/badges or HW3...what will come first ?

My account showed the FSD within a couple of minutes of purchasing...that was fast !

I am thinking spoiler... since I am hoping to have my spoiler by "summer" and not expecting hw3 until next year (no data on that, its just my expectation).

 

[more863-also]

Just a reminder that there's no obligation for Tesla to give you HW3. If it were definitely true it would be on the site, written out, in plain English. Tweets don't obligate Tesla to make good on this.

 

[Jeeps17]

What about the camera handling color slightly differently do you possibly imagine would prevent it from recording the video it's already taking once the CPU bottleneck is solved?

You cut out the rest of my post, including the very next sentence where I said that AP2.0 cameras MAY be able to do the trick with a more powerful CPU, my point is that to this day Tesla has never confirmed that to be the case.

I don't definitively know if the CPU is the only limiting factor to AP2.0, please enlighten me if you do, or if you are speculating like the rest of us.

Don't forget that Elon had stated in writing that dashcam would come to all AP2.0 and above vehicles. When the feature appeared, AP2.0 owners found out that they were in fact out of luck, you now need AP2.5. Since then, radio silence.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Just a reminder that there's no obligation for Tesla to give you HW3. If it were definitely true it would be on the site, written out, in plain English. Tweets don't obligate Tesla to make good on this.

Evidence for:
Tweet(s)
Earnings call
Tesla online support (the post you disagreed with which was funny since all the person was doing was posting the result of a chat session while not making any definite conclusion from it)

Evidence against:
There isn't anything on Tesla's website or blog.

FYI - The Tesla website can't be considered an obligation either. There have been plenty of things stated on the website that never came true.

 

[jkoya]

Just a reminder that there's no obligation for Tesla to give you HW3. If it were definitely true it would be on the site, written out, in plain English. Tweets don't obligate Tesla to make good on this.

Point well taken !

 

[more863-also]

Evidence for:
Tweet(s)
Earnings call
Tesla online support (the post you disagreed with which was funny since all the person was doing was posting the result of a chat session while not making any definite conclusion from it)

Evidence against:
There isn't anything on Tesla's website or blog.

FYI - The Tesla website can't be considered an obligation either. There have been plenty of things stated on the website that never came true.

Yeah, see the thing is that none of those things are legally binding like a statement on the website or buying flow would be.

 

[Knightshade]

Evidence for:
Tweet(s)
Earnings call
Tesla online support (the post you disagreed with which was funny since all the person was doing was posting the result of a chat session while not making any definite conclusion from it)

Evidence against:
There isn't anything on Tesla's website or blog.

Or so sum up... there's no evidence FSD gets you HW3 except for literally every bit of evidence that actually exists

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, see the thing is that none of those things are legally binding like a statement on the website or buying flow would be.

Can you explain why a "statement on a website" is legally binding but "Multiple direct quotes from the CEO himself in his official capacity including in interviews and in writing" are not?

Or why "statement on a website" is legally binding but the exact statement you want but in audio format, already ON THE WEBSITE is not?

(hint: no, you can't)

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Yeah, see the thing is that none of those things are legally binding like a statement on the website or buying flow would be.

Regardless of legally binding there have been plenty of things on the website that never came true.

Like FSD having eight active cameras, and EAP only having 4 active cameras. That completely went away, and the 360 degree visualization (that every HW2/HW2.5) car has uses all eight.

There was stuff for AP1 on the website that never came true.

Elon twitter account is also official Tesla communication. So if Elon tweets something there is some level of legally binding element to it. Especially if combined with other things.

Sure having it on the website would strengthen the case. But, it's important to point out that Tesla has been sued multiple times for failing to deliver on promises.

So even on the website doesn't mean it's airtight.

 

[Knightshade]

Regardless of legally binding there have been plenty of things on the website that never came true.

Like FSD having eight active cameras, and EAP only having 4 active cameras. That completely went away, and the 360 degree visualization (that every HW2/HW2.5) car has uses all eight.

To be fair, I'm not sure "the company gave me MORE than they promised" would be much of a basis for a lawsuit.

Elon twitter account is also official Tesla communication. So if Elon tweets something there is some level of legally binding element to it. Especially if combined with other things.
.

Yup.

 

[Knightshade]

You cut out the rest of my post, including the very next sentence where I said that AP2.0 cameras MAY be able to do the trick with a more powerful CPU, my point is that to this day Tesla has never confirmed that to be the case.

I don't definitively know if the CPU is the only limiting factor to AP2.0, please enlighten me if you do, or if you are speculating like the rest of us.

Don't forget that Elon had stated in writing that dashcam would come to all AP2.0 and above vehicles. When the feature appeared, AP2.0 owners found out that they were in fact out of luck, you now need AP2.5. Since then, radio silence.

So I thought some more about this...

there's really only 3 "parts" that could have anything to do with the system....

the cameras... they're not the problem since we know they record video (that's kind of why they exist). HW2.0 cars might not get as good color video due to the filter differences would be the only thing there.

The AP computer- if that's the bottleneck, which seems most likely since it lacks the extra GPU that HW2.5 has, then HW3 fixes that.

The MCU....the media computer... I'm not aware of this having much/anything to do with the dashcam or sentry feature, but I suppose it's POSSIBLE it does if it uses it for filesystem stuff with the USB drive or something... and it'd call to the MCU to display things and play music (and maybe send app alerts) so I thought, well, yeah, maybe THAT could be a problem even with HW3 for folks still on MCU1....

But then Elon provides again.

Apparently HW3 upgrade will also enable you to swap to the newest MCU.

Not clear at this point if that's "included" free... though IIRC they're on the same physical unit at least in the 3, so if HW3 is built that way too then it's be more work/cost for Tesla NOT to include it


Elon Musk on Twitter

1. Will Fealey ️ ‏ @WillFealey Mar 12
   Will there be an upgrade option for the newer MCU as well?

Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk
Replying to @WillFealey @TonyTesla4Life and
Yes

 

[Midway99]

Agreed. All Tesla has to do is put HW3 hardware upgrade included into FSD description/order. As of this writing the FSD upgrade description on my account is still extremely vague with the only promise been continuous over-the-air software upgrade.

I just spoke with chat support and captured these:

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

To be fair, I'm not sure "the company gave me MORE than they promised" would be much of a basis for a lawsuit.

I think it was in relation to making a buying decision thinking they were going to get what the website says. That they'd have the benefit from 8 activate cameras, and not being one of the lowly people with only 4 active cameras.

That didn't turn out to be true.

The lawsuit likely wouldn't pertain to that specifically, but I could see it being used in a lawsuit about FSD.

But, I don't know if a lawsuit would be successful as there was no promised date or any REAL promised deliverable aside from FSD itself.

For me personally I'm glad that all cars have eight active cameras as that improves safety.

 

[rking0122]

At this point, almost regardless of the legal issues on what FSD owners are entitled to, it would be a complete shi*storm of bad PR if HW3 wasn't included. Probably more powerful than a lawsuit...see how fast pricing changed back?

 

[Midway99]

for what it's worth, I just spoke with chat support and captured these as I could not get a clear answer and this still isn't 100%, but in my opinion, we are rolling the dice as first adopters.

View attachment 386188 View attachment 386189

 

[devildogDMD]

You note these feature upgrades as if they are a given.

Have you seen, in writing from company management, confirmation that AP2.0 vehicles getting the HW3 AP upgrade will get access to dashcam & sentry features ?

Both of these rely on cameras that have been upgraded on v2.5 vehicles, and would definitely not be included in a HW3 CPU swap.

Maybe AP2.0 cameras can do the trick with a beefed up CPU, maybe not.

I have not yet seen Tesla confirm this anywhere, although were it true I would seriously consider buying FSD at the current discount.

The absolute radio silence from Elon & Tesla about anything AP2.0 does not reassure me, however.

The only difference between the hw2 and the 2.5 is the extra Nvidia chip/card. All of the other hardware is the same. They did update the MCU but that is independent from AP.

 

[Knightshade]

The only difference between the hw2 and the 2.5 is the extra Nvidia chip/card. All of the other hardware is the same. They did update the MCU but that is independent from AP.

Supposedly the color filtering on the cameras is also different between HW2 and 2.5 (though I can't imagine how it'd make any difference on the ability to do dashcam, other than the 2.5 footage might look better/truer color-wise)... there's also some additional wiring redundancy but again don't see how that'd impact the dashcam thing