Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[Knightshade]

really, would anyone spend $2K for some vague set of promises that are not in writing.

You mean besides the numerous places the CEO of the company clearly and explicitly and publicly puts it in writing? (and in recording audio linked directly on tesla.com)

The fact Level 1 phone support dudes can't get their answers straight is a story as old as time.

same folks that have other threads reporting "Phone guy told me new cheaper AP includes auto lane change!" (hint: it doesn't) and tons of other examples of calling 5 times and getting 5 different answers.

Why does anyone think the guy who answers L1 support calls knows more than the CEO of the company?

I asked him why my neighbor, who I referred to purchase her car, is getting the equivalent for EAP+FSD for $5000. This or course hurts given that I was told that I would pay less. His explanation: it cost less to send a full software update to my neighbor, then to do a piecemeal update to my car with EAP. Talk about crazy explanations.

Thanks for yet another example of why people probably shouldn't base purchasing decisions on L1 phone support contradicting the company CEO....thanks!

 

[OCR1]

Here is the email I sent to Tesla support asking whether HW3 is included in the FSD upgrade, and their response. Take it for what it’s worth, since there have been other responses from other Tesla reps. Everyone seems to have their own interpretation of Elon’s tweets.



Hello,

Thank you for contacting Tesla! Elon has stated on Twitter that customers who have Full Self-Driving will receive all of the necessary hardware updates. He has not specified if this is true for the new customers purchasing Full Self-Driving.

Best Regards,

Bryce | Tesla Support
Customer and Product Support | Tesla Support


--------------- Original Message ---------------

Sent: 3/12/2019 3:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: FSD Upgrade

Hello,

I am interested in purchase the Full Service Driving upgrade on your website for $2,000. I currently have a Model 3 with Enhanced Auto Pilot. I noticed that the website only refers to an entitlement of future software updates but does not reference the upcoming hardware upgrade to HW V3. Can you clarify whether the $2,000 price includes an entitlement to a free HW V3 upgrade, both parts and labor to install?

Thank you,

 

[whatthe2]

I was ambivalent until I made 2 calls to Tesla today. Spoke with a guy in SLC named Cody. The call blew me away -- now there is zero chance I will shell out another $2k to Tesla. First, Cody said he had no information that buying FSD would involve HW3. I asked him about Elon's tweet, etc, and he said that his managers have told him there is no expectation of HW3. He said it is possible, but it is very uncertain. Kudos for his honesty, but really, would anyone spend $2K for some vague set of promises that are not in writing. Remember, those of us who purchased EAP were told it will be cheaper to purchase at the point of sale that upgrade later. Second, I asked him why my neighbor, who I referred to purchase her car, is getting the equivalent for EAP+FSD for $5000. This or course hurts given that I was told that I would pay less. His explanation: it cost less to send a full software update to my neighbor, then to do a piecemeal update to my car with EAP. Talk about crazy explanations. All I can say is that Tesla is digging there own grave with responses like this. I have sadly already dissuaded two friends from purchasing a Tesla. Just too much uncertainty and smoke and mirrors.

So you chose to believe Cody over Elon?

 

[OCR1]

I think these arguments about believing the CEO rather than lower level Tesla employees are missing the point. In a well run company, the CEO provides clear direction and everyone below the CEO clearly understands what the company’s position is and they can articulate it to all customers in a clear and consistent manner.

The fact that many calls and emails to support have yielded such a wide variety of responses indicates a company that is struggling to organize itself. And it causes some of us to lose confidence in Tesla when the CEO tweets one thing, the web site says something different, and a variety of Tesla support folks add even more variety to their responses. So if I had to choose between what a level 1 customer support person says or what the CEO “tweets”, yes I would tend to weigh communication from the CEO much heavier than support. But the fact that Elon can’t get his company to articulate a clear message to its customers, either verbally from its own employees or in writing on its website, does not instill great confidence in me that they have a clear roadmap for getting their FSD and HW3 act together.

I was the CEO of a company for many years. If I articulated a strategic direction to my employees, and they could not clearly communicate this direction to our clients, it would trouble me deeply. The fact that it doesn’t seem to bother Elon, or maybe he isn’t even aware of it, is something I can’t comprehend. It is his job as CEO to get this stuff handled properly.

I did elect to purchase the FSD upgrade for $2K because at the end of the day I can afford it and if it doesn’t amount to anything all that useful to me I suppose I’ll be out $2K and life will go on.

 

[Runnergirl]

Finally made my decision- I'm NOT getting the FSD for the "sale" price. And neither is hubby. We just planned a 2 week Caribbean vacation instead. That's real. I can look forward to a tangible end result.

Sadly, I'm still skeptical that FSD is not going to be any better than the EAP we already overpaid for..So it boiled down to choosing between a Fiesta or FSD.. the all-inclusive drink package wins! Cheers!

 

[schnieds]

Elon re-stated last week that new FSD purchases include the upgrade to HW3. Elon Musk on Twitter

It's still a risk, but he has stated it enough times that it is a risk I am willing to take with my new M3P purchase.

I think these arguments about believing the CEO rather than lower level Tesla employees are missing the point. In a well run company, the CEO provides clear direction and everyone below the CEO clearly understands what the company’s position is and they can articulate it to all customers in a clear and consistent manner.

The fact that many calls and emails to support have yielded such a wide variety of responses indicates a company that is struggling to organize itself. And it causes some of us to lose confidence in Tesla when the CEO tweets one thing, the web site says something different, and a variety of Tesla support folks add even more variety to their responses. So if I had to choose between what a level 1 customer support person says or what the CEO “tweets”, yes I would tend to weigh communication from the CEO much heavier than support. But the fact that Elon can’t get his company to articulate a clear message to its customers, either verbally from its own employees or in writing on its website, does not instill great confidence in me that they have a clear roadmap for getting their FSD and HW3 act together.

I was the CEO of a company for many years. If I articulated a strategic direction to my employees, and they could not clearly communicate this direction to our clients, it would trouble me deeply. The fact that it doesn’t seem to bother Elon, or maybe he isn’t even aware of it, is something I can’t comprehend. It is his job as CEO to get this stuff handled properly.

I did elect to purchase the FSD upgrade for $2K because at the end of the day I can afford it and if it doesn’t amount to anything all that useful to me I suppose I’ll be out $2K and life will go on.

 

[Knightshade]

I think these arguments about believing the CEO rather than lower level Tesla employees are missing the point. In a well run company, the CEO provides clear direction and everyone below the CEO clearly understands what the company’s position is and they can articulate it to all customers in a clear and consistent manner.

I completely agree that's how things should work in theory.

On the other hand, while this problem (level 1 phone reps giving different answers to the same question) is especially bad at Tesla, it's extremely common across virtually all companies.

It's why a very very common phrase when people give advice on calling customer service for any company when you don't like the answer you just got is- HUCA.

Hang up, call again.

I've seen it myriad times with not just small, young companies... but huge companies that have been around for decades (or in at least one case where I have direct experience- a company that's been around for centuries) including companies that were incredibly successful, and leaders in their respective industries, including much of the top 10 of the Fortune 500.


As I say, Tesla is particularly bad about it, but it's shockingly common.

 

[OCR1]

Elon re-stated last week that new FSD purchases include the upgrade to HW3. Elon Musk on Twitter

It's still a risk, but he has stated it enough times that it is a risk I am willing to take with my new M3P purchase.

I’m not a twitter user, so maybe I’m not sure how to read his response. Are you referring to his tweet saying “correct” where he appears to be replying to questions from 7 different people?

 

[Pandawan]

I took delivery last year and can't decide whether to go for AP or FSD or neither as I don't need any of those features. I don't want to end up paying more later if I can get it cheaper now. I have this gut feeling that down the line a game-changing feature will drop that will make me go I NEED THAT. Then at that point I'll be annoyed with myself for not just buying FSD earlier lol

 

[Thomas Edison]

I took delivery last year and can't decide whether to go for AP or FSD or neither as I don't need any of those features. I don't want to end up paying more later if I can get it cheaper now. I have this gut feeling that down the line a game-changing feature will drop that will make me go I NEED THAT. Then at that point I'll be annoyed with myself for not just buying FSD earlier lol

I’ll say that at $2k vanilla AP is a no-brainer. Being able to go all the way to a full stop and start again without even touching a pedal in traffic is so nice. Not having to adjust for cars speeding up or slowing down ahead of you, so nice. Add Autosteer to that (in your own lane), $2k is worth it, even if you have to charge it to a credit card IMO.

 

[Eno Deb]

I took delivery last year and can't decide whether to go for AP or FSD or neither as I don't need any of those features. I don't want to end up paying more later if I can get it cheaper now. I have this gut feeling that down the line a game-changing feature will drop that will make me go I NEED THAT. Then at that point I'll be annoyed with myself for not just buying FSD earlier lol

If it's not uncommon for you to drive in slow traffic, and/or you do a lot of long-distance highway driving, get the regular AP. It works very well in those scenarios and will save you a lot of stress. Now FSD, that's another question ...

 

[mongo]

I’m not a twitter user, so maybe I’m not sure how to read his response. Are you referring to his tweet saying “correct” where he appears to be replying to questions from 7 different people?

Read the q3 2018 conference call transcript or listen to it yourself. FSD includes HW3 upgrade.

 

[OCR1]

Read the q3 2018 conference call transcript or listen to it yourself. FSD includes HW3 upgrade.

Is this the sentence you are referring to?

“And anyone who is patron for self-driving option, we'll just get it done for free.”

There are so many things wrong with this sentence I don’t even know where to begin. But thank you for the evening laugh!

I’m going to be a patron to my bed now and go sleep.

 

[Knightshade]

Is this the sentence you are referring to?

“And anyone who is patron for self-driving option, we'll just get it done for free.”

There are so many things wrong with this sentence I don’t even know where to begin. But thank you for the evening laugh!

I’m going to be a patron to my bed now and go sleep.

Reads as bad transcription- it's "who has paid for self-driving option will just get it done free"

Which is the same thing Elon has explicitly stated on twitter multiple times both last year and as recently as last week.

 

[OCR1]

I completely agree that's how things should work in theory.

On the other hand, while this problem (level 1 phone reps giving different answers to the same question) is especially bad at Tesla, it's extremely common across virtually all companies.

Um, no. It’s extremely common across companies that have little to no competition. My cable company behaves this way because they have a duopoly and the other cable company is even worse. AT&T behaved this way when they had an exclusive on the IPhone because they could get away with it. When Apple opened up the IPhone to all carriers AT&T suddenly began caring about its customers.

Tesla is getting away with this for now because they have essentially no competition. But the day will come when they do. And if the competition creates a competitive product and offers better service, Tesla will feel the pain. The good news is that when the competition does eventually catch up it will be good news for the consumer, because either Tesla will be forced to clean up its act or there will be a better company with better service to replace them.

 

[michidragon]

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Tesla! Elon has stated on Twitter that customers who have Full Self-Driving will receive all of the necessary hardware updates. He has not specified if this is true for the new customers purchasing Full Self-Driving.

Wow, so yeah here we go with two tiers of FSD, without it even being explained to us as we purchase. I would not be surprised at all if AP 2.0/2.5 folks who bought in the last few weeks only get some janky version of stop sign and traffic light recognition.

In fact I can't wait to be on the phone with Customer Service a year from now as they try to tell me that the $2000 I paid for was for the EAP features of FSD, (NoA, standard summon) - which I already had. Really looking forward to that. Would totally not be surprised if that happened.

I know the superfans are adamant about this "because Elon tweeted it" but really if you look at the sum of the parts here it's pretty clear that Tesla is stepping back from the "all FSD purchasers will get HW3" line.

I know I'll get a reply lecturing me about "level 1 employees" and "The CEO said it multiple times!" - but I have a feeling these people are either A) about to learn a hard lesson in corporate honesty, or B) will suddenly change the goalposts as soon as the position officially changes.

I did buy FSD last week (still no verification of it but that's another story) - these questions started popping up basically the day after; but at this point I'm pretty aware that Tesla may have gotten my money for nothing.

The superfans and sycophants will yell, but until something is delivered we'll never know. I could see three years from now some folks on various forums still screaming "Elon said you'll get HW3, stop whining!"

The $2000 may have been tricked out of me. Time will tell. If that is the case, wow I really wonder how this'll go down historically. And really am surprised that nothing has come of people paying $5000 in 2016.

For now I'll have to just move on with my life and forget about it at this point.

 

[Pandawan]

I’ll say that at $2k vanilla AP is a no-brainer. Being able to go all the way to a full stop and start again without even touching a pedal in traffic is so nice. Not having to adjust for cars speeding up or slowing down ahead of you, so nice. Add Autosteer to that (in your own lane), $2k is worth it, even if you have to charge it to a credit card IMO.

If it's not uncommon for you to drive in slow traffic, and/or you do a lot of long-distance highway driving, get the regular AP. It works very well in those scenarios and will save you a lot of stress. Now FSD, that's another question ...

I live in Southern California and there's traffic everywhere on the freeways but for the time being my commute is strictly local. Distance wise it isn't bad but the sheer amount of traffic lights is frustrating. It's like stop and go freeway traffic...but on local streets.

I may have to end up traveling on the freeways in the future so I might just get the standard AP just in case...so...hard to decide...mouse hovering over purchase button...

 

[Thomas Edison]

I live in Southern California and there's traffic everywhere on the freeways but for the time being my commute is strictly local. Distance wise it isn't bad but the sheer amount of traffic lights is frustrating. It's like stop and go freeway traffic...but on local streets.

I may have to end up traveling on the freeways in the future so I might just get the standard AP just in case...so...hard to decide...mouse hovering over purchase button...

I use mine on city streets all the time. As long as I don’t have to turn onto another road and I’m not the first car at a stop light it’s nice. I’m on one road with no turns to other roads, 1 stop sign and about 25 lights for 25 min every morning uninterrupted.

 

[StealthP3D]

Damn I'm a hypocrite Go ahead and rub it in if you all want.

Not at all! I fully support people changing their mind. It's a free world and every day is a new day.

But now, the burning question in my mind: In the interest of fairness to all, when Tesla raises the price of FSD on Monday morning, will you be sending them a check for a $1,000?

 

[Eno Deb]

I live in Southern California and there's traffic everywhere on the freeways but for the time being my commute is strictly local. Distance wise it isn't bad but the sheer amount of traffic lights is frustrating. It's like stop and go freeway traffic...but on local streets.

I normally don't use AP on local streets ... unless I'm exactly in this type of stop-and-go traffic. It works fine. You just turn it off or hit the brake if you end up being the first car at a red light. I also use it while waiting for my turn at those metered on-ramps. It really has made my commute much more bearable. I think $2k is a fair price.