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Don't let monsters use your money...

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by nwdiver, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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  2. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    Took a look at your link. My first impression is that FUD runs both ways: pick-and-choose data; half-truths; obfuscation.

    A few points:
    * Bigger banks have more exposure than smaller banks. Gee, there's a surprise.
    * Zero attempt by authors to demsontrate percentage exposure by Bank A to your Monster Of Choice relative to its overall loan portfolio.
    * How much of these are for met coal? What is the percentage of met coal vs. steam coal?
    * It's a global economy - just about everything is interlinked. Perhaps - it certainly isn't evident from this link - Bank A funds $Xbn to, say, coal companies but $X+Ybn to, say, solar installations. Who's to know?

    Specious garbage, all in all. Not worthy of looking at. Sorry!
     
  3. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Yeah I'm buying power from Southern Company. Don't really have a choice there. So I am sending dollars directly to Coal burners. I'm not really worried where my bank is loaning out dollars.

    From the OP's site:
     
  4. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    And so what? What I'd like to see the proposal to replace that coal with something else that maintains the same system reliability and cost. No takers? That's what I thought. Interestingly, a lot of that will be retired at the end of its life due to the natural gas glut, which comes from fracking, so fracking is good because it kills coal ...?
     
  5. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I don't really have a problem with Southern Company. They are great network operators, never have billing mistakes, and offer me quite cheap electricity. I was just pointing out that boycotting a bank is absurd when I pay the largest coal operator every month for electricity.

    Sure I want it to be renewable (and for a while when Georgia Power had more subscribers to green energy plans than it had capacity I was on the green energy plan). Not to mention they are the only power company expanding nuclear production right now (I'm very pro nuclear power).
     
  6. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    .... are you suggesting that we should continue subsidizing our cheap and reliable electricity with the quality of life of future generations?... IMO it's clear that no matter how cheap or reliable coal is simply not a morally acceptable option. Natural Gas isn't much better but at least a turbine can cycle more efficiently with renewables than a thermal plant.

    Chase and Citi are the 7th and 17th largest banks yet they rank #1 and #2... HSBC is the 3rd largest yet it ranks 17th.
     
  7. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Southern is busily building two new nukes, which will reduce its reliance on coal.
     
  8. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    My advice is to bank with a small community bank or credit union. These institutions are essential for the small businesses in your area, which are often underserved by the Big Banks. My bank here in Maine offers a much better deal than any of the Big Banks, including free ATM use worldwide, no fees for incoming wire transfers, and advanced mobile banking. And, I know they're not funding coal, oil or gas development, simply because we don't have such things in Maine.
     
  9. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    The same cost may be difficult, but there are options that come close. In Europe where the government is squeezing CO2 emissions much harder, some coal plants are being retrofitted to burn wood pellets. I'm not sure how much the retrofit costs, but it didn't sound like much was changed.

    I don't know much about bulk prices, but current U.S.consumer prices have the pellets about 15% more expensive than the coal I believe - and I think the pellets have more opportunity to lower prices with economies of scale and new techniques/sources (just about any plant matter can be made into pellets, though sawdust is the traditional choice.)
    Walter
     
  10. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    #10 ItsNotAboutTheMoney, Nov 1, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
    Is that coal cost including or excluding externalities?

    Fracking is a nasty process, but NG itself is the cleanest and most efficient fossil fuel, and the cheapest and fastest way to an economy built on renewable energy.

    I'm not totally against the use of coal, but for too long its economics have depended significantly on excusing the pollution produced all the way from the mine to the stack. I utterly loathe the cheap-at-all-costs-(but-you-can't-put-restrictions-on-individual-freedom) mentality that has allowed this situtation to continue for so long.

    Anyway, back on topic, if you want to avoid "the monsters" you can look speficially for ethical investment funds or institutions with an ethical investment policy.
     

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