Don't skip Superchargers on long trips

[dgpcolorado]

...Quote: “Perfect example. For many SLC to PDX situations, you can easily skip the Tremonton charger on the way there and even the Pendleton charger on the way back.”

Heh heh, you are shooting yourself in the foot and might want to consider not reloading the gun. That is ridiculous on its face, but I’m worried that you actually believe this. Keep the number of a towing service with you. Skipping the Tremonton charger would be Salt Lake City to Twin Falls in one shot. EVTripplanner shows that using about 237 rated miles in pretty good conditions, but there’s a pretty solid batch of mountains to go over, so temperature is not your friend a lot of the time. Here is a tale of forum user @mmh trying approximately that route. He was driving Salt Lake City to Village of Trees RV Resort in Declo, about 45 miles short of Twin Falls, and it was white-knuckling and 60mph on the 80mph highway.

Salt Lake City, Utah to Boise, Idaho


And for skipping Pendleton, that is 262 rated miles! So enjoy the hour to hour and a half charge to 100% in The Dalles and of course the total lack of any heating or cooling. You have a really messed up idea of “easily skippable”...

Wow. I had to laugh at those examples as well. Even in an 85 — never mind a 60 or 70 — those would be really tough places to skip a charge except in near ideal conditions (mild temperature and no wind) or by driving very slowly in those 70-80 mph speed limit zones. And doing a range charge instead of just hitting each Supercharger Station is supposed to be faster? Right.

I will also point out that both Tremonton and Pendleton are pretty much right next to the freeway and are very easy to get to.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Wow! I had a good laugh on that was as well, since the only time I drove from Tremonton to Idaho Falls I barely made it, with maybe 10 mi to spare! Yup, go ahead and skip Tremonton and enjoy the side of the road.
70D and Winter Performance/Range

 

[kort677]

Wow! I had a good laugh on that was as well, since the only time I drove from Tremonton to Idaho Falls I barely made it, with maybe 10 mi to spare! Yup, go ahead and skip Tremonton and enjoy the side of the road.
70D and Winter Performance/Range

10 miles to spare is more than enough, you don't win a prize for conserving electrons. On some of my cross country trips getting the battery down that low is par for the course.

 

[amallah]

Anyone improve on these rules of thumb?

1. Range charge at home.
2. drive to the farthest SC on your route that you can safely get to. (IE skip any in between).
3. Charge only enough to safely get to the next SC that is at least ~100 miles away. (Skip any in between)
4. Repeat.
5. Plan meals and longer stops wisely to coincide with any need or benefit from a fuller charge in the slow taper zone.

This is probably the best framework for a rule of thumb. I get that the OP is correct for their specific LA->Denver example, but I tried to use that strategy in my last road trip and it would have slowed me down a lot. From Baltimore to NYC there are 3 superchargers to cover 191 miles. Stopping at each one made no sense, stopping at none of them (per EVTripPlanner's plan) also makes no sense. What I ended up doing was the above. I also had no charging at my destination and had to view the last leg as a portion of the first leg of the return trip. It makes no sense to charge twice within 100 miles and maybe that number could be more like 50% of your car's rated range.

 

[mmccord]

I skipped 5 SCs on the way from NY to Baltimore today.

Paramus
Edison
East Brunswick
Cranberry
Hamilton

I could have driven straight through to my destination if I had charging at the hotel, but I do not, so I got to spend some time at Newark.

 

[bxr140]

For many SLC to PDX situations, you can easily skip the Tremonton charger on the way there and even the Pendleton charger on the way back.

All--I apologize for the unfortunate mis-type above. For those who were following the conversation, you would have noted that the above is an obvious error that should have said "even skip The Dalles" [and charge at Pendleton, when departing from PDX]. I'd edit my post, but its too late.

For those obviously interested in something other than following the conversation...well...I hope you got what you were looking for.

<Baloney>

Look, if you want me to help you understand my point and have a real discussion that advances the conversation, great. I'm very happy to field challenges to anything I say, as long as those challenges are in context. If all you want to do is twist my obviously grey perspective into black and white bullet points to be won or lost over an internet argument, save the keystrokes.

 

[Rocky_H]

All--I apologize for the unfortunate mis-type above. For those who were following the conversation, you would have noted that the above is an obvious error that should have said "even skip The Dalles" [and charge at Pendleton, when departing from PDX]. I'd edit my post, but its too late.

For those obviously interested in something other than following the conversation...well...I hope you got what you were looking for.



Look, if you want me to help you understand my point and have a real discussion that advances the conversation, great. I'm very happy to field challenges to anything I say, as long as those challenges are in context. If all you want to do is twist my obviously grey perspective into black and white bullet points to be won or lost over an internet argument, save the keystrokes.

It's hard debating with you much when you won’t even hold to your own position. People respond to what you said, and you respond that you “obviously” meant something else. But of course you say it is other people “twisting” your words. *sigh*

So, looking at your new thesis, that you meant skipping The Dalles, that’s showing 243 rated miles in the really generous conditions of summer. That’s still tight. Why would anyone think it is so “obvious” that it’s skippable? Woe unto anyone departing from the West side of Portland.

Quote: “Look, if you want me to help you understand my point and have a real discussion”

Heh, um no. I was trying to explain that your point was basically incorrect.

Quote: “If all you want to do is twist my obviously grey perspective into black and white bullet points”

While you did have an earlier part that was grey, in your numbered 5 point set of variables, no one twisted this very hard black and white point:

Previous quote: “There are VERY few, if any real world road trips where the fastest total time is to stop at every supercharger.”

That’s the one people have a problem with, because it’s generally not accurate for most of the country. “Save the keystrokes”? While the concern for my repetitive strain injury is commendable, I am having fun.
xkcd: Duty Calls

 

[Mark Vallaster]

EVTripplanner doesn't set a certain speed, rather it goes off what Google maps says as the average speed cars are going on a specific road. Then you enter a 'speed multiplier' to adjust your own speed. The default is actually pretty close to what I would drive. When I plan I put in 1.05 or 1.1 as a multiplier when I know it's at night and I can go faster without traffic.

I use EVTripPlanner a lot and I find it a decent guide. I almost never get the route that it planned when I punch the destination into the car because the algorithms are different and tesla's computer takes traffic into account.

 

[Mark Vallaster]

I have skipped superchargers and its worked sometimes and not worked others. One time on a trip from DC to blacksburg va, it called for a 5 minute stop at Staunton and my math said I could make it to the next one. I ended up sitting at a Nissan dealer for 30 min topping off. My advice, be sure if you do. It can save time but can also be a time suck. In general, for new routes, I usually do what the car says.

 

[bhzmark]

you mean strausburg? No supercharger at Staunton -- just a crappy greenlots chadeomo that usually doesn't work.

 

[Tree95]

sadly out there in the real world there are so many tesla owners that do not embrace the valuable info that is offered on sites like this and are not informed on this huge detail.

I was in Tejon Ranch about a month ago early in the morning so I was the only S there . Another parked in the paired spot. I was nearly done, so I wasn't worried about any impact. I mentioned to the driver and her husband that pairing wasn't optimal. She and her husband said they'd been told that it was best to 'pair'. They were serious. And, they got a little hostile when I said I didn't think that's how it worked .

 

[bxr140]

It's hard debating with you much when you won’t even hold to your own position. People respond to what you said, and you respond that you “obviously” meant something else.

No.

Whether you agree with the logic or not, the logic itself is rudimentary. That you did not spot the error and instead immediately made it an argumentative point suggests you either a) aren't trying to understand what I'm saying or b) don't actually understand what I'm saying.

Bigger picture, you found a way to make many of my statements contentious...and I'm concerned those are also really just a lack of understanding on your part.

Previous quote: “There are VERY few, if any real world road trips where the fastest total time is to stop at every supercharger.”

That’s the one people have a problem with, because it’s generally not accurate for most of the country.

Ah. The crux. I'm not sure why you didn't just ask for clarification, but in any event let me help you understand:

The original intent of this thread was an attempt to educate on minimizing total trip time. More specifically, the original intent of this thread was an attempt to roll up a fairly technical point (understanding and using the taper to one's advantage) into something understandable by the layman. That's a noble cause, but in doing so one needs to consider the audience, which is current and new owners (especially near-mid term new owners, and explicitly NOT far future owners ~5+ years out***) who don't really understand how supercharging works.

The vast majority of that audience live in populated areas that have close access to superchargers, and many of them in charger dense regions like CA or the northeast. Folks that don't live in those areas often travel to or through those areas. If you use that population base to consider the likely tesla road trips around the country and fold in things like destination/overnight charging (not to mention the fact that the more affluent owner group is more likely to fly), you arrive at the conclusion that traveling an entire route without skipping a supercharger is going to be some percentage of tesla road trips. I simply contest that percentage is quite small. Of course you can come up with many routes where one would need to stop at every supercharger, but for every trip through middle america, there's probably a hundred trips or more between LA and SF or up and down 95 in the northeast.

Again, if one's intent is to educate one needs to consider the audience being educated. Personally insulting as it may be for those in middle america, there's not much Tesla audience there, and if an educator is going to draw a conclusion to err on either side of the grey, its better for all if that err is on the side of the majority.

***As previously noted, the future of all criteria for charging (like total capacity, charge speed, charger density/spacing, etc) will continue to make the original assertion significantly less valid, so even more emphasis needs to be placed on it being a short term solution.