Don't take your hands off the wheel

[Mamafonz]

My hands are alway on the steering wheel and I get nagged all the time. The only way that seems to consistently eliminate the nag is to drive with a single hand on the wheel, which is not what I would consider proper usage.

Yes, I always keep at least on hand on the wheel and I get nagged constantly. I squeeze the wheel, push, pull on it, still get a nag. Maybe I am supposed to jiggle it?

 

[adam0785]

I can say that at least for me, AP1 is way better than it was in 2015. Earlier this year, I drove an AP2.5 service loaner for a few days (with EAP) and I thought that its lane-keeping quality was generally on-par with my AP1 car (not dramatically better or worse). This was a pleasant surprise to me, to be honest. I would have been comfortable taking that loaner on a long road trip and driving it the same as my usual car. Also, this was one of the first releases that had Nav on Autopilot, and even though I still had to confirm every lane change, the potential in this system was pretty exciting.

Things you don'l hear much about anymore that were once commonplace for AP1: Exit diving (where AP1 cars used to prefer taking exit lanes rather than staying on the freeway). Truck lust (the tendency of AP1 cars to sometimes scoot closer to semi-trucks that they're passing). Not saying that these never happen, but in general they seem to happen much much much less for both AP1 and AP2/2.5/3.

I'm trying to think of problems nowadays that we didn't have before...phantom braking is one that comes to mind.

I remember when AP2 cars first got autosteering capability. If I could characterize the general opinion at the time, it sucked. It was weavy and speed-limited. What you guys are driving nowadays in the Model 3 is way better than that.

I'd say that when AP1 was actively being worked on, there were various releases that were better in some ways, worse than others. We sometimes had a feeling of regression for some releases. It seems that's what AP2/2.5/3 are going through now. Like there's progress being made, but it's not a perfect process of improvement either. It's difficult to generalize because across the population of Tesla owners, people can have widely differing experiences, and it's difficult to exactly characterize the system's behavior as a whole ("the plural of anecdote is not data").

Bruce.

Thank you for your response! Truly!

 

[NDD27587]

I have a nearly identical situation on my daily commute to work. I've often wondered if it would still try to slam me into the other lane if there was a car there?

The part that surprises me the most, however, is that it will still do this even while tracking a car in front of me.

Same here. Following another car most every time. I have tested it a couple times when there is no car in the Gas Station entrance to see if it will actually go into the entrance. It jerks towards the entrance and then seems to realize what is going on and never gets very far over before catching itself and going back to its original path.

 

[AnzacValentine]

That's how Autopilot is intended to be used, hands on the wheel at all times. I have eliminated the "nags" by always resting one hand on the wheel when using Autopilot. It's still a relaxing drive with added safety. I would only take my hand off the wheel for brief moments and when passage is safe. We all have a responsibility to ensure Autopilot continues to evolve. Irresponsibility will only hamper these efforts. Love the Tesla craft.

 

[Fernand]

Yes, I always keep at least on hand on the wheel and I get nagged constantly. I squeeze the wheel, push, pull on it, still get a nag. Maybe I am supposed to jiggle it?

It takes practice. I never got fully comfortable with the required
tug, so after 3 months I added a 90g counterweight that makes
it satisfied enough with just the normal resistance of my hand(s).

 

[GolanB]

I have on road I drive on every morning on my way to work. When I go by this one gas station, the line in front of the entrance is dashed instead of solid. Every single time, it tries to swerve into that entrance, even if there is a car sitting there. Not sure why it wants to do that. But I did notice that in front of driveways, the line is solid and only dashed at cross streets. Wondering if the line is painted wrong in front of the gas station entrance and that it should be a solid line. Either way, the pressure from my hand on the wheel always causes it to come out of auto pilot. I keep thinking that one day it will learn from its mistakes, but five days a week since Oct 17, 2018 and it still hasn't learned yet.

There is a misconception I believe about the way the NN gets trained. This is not an entirely automated process. In my situation, I was able to record on video, and submit a bug report prior to getting ahold of the advanced autopilot team. They then used my data (and likely pulled similar data) to solve for the problem I encountered in the Holland Tunnel. Tesla created an issue tracking number and I’ve been in touch with escalation team over the last month. I am waiting for confirmation that this was resolved in the latest release of 12 and I will retest. If you’ve encountered something repeatable you should try to get it on video (I used TeslaCam plus external video) as well as the bug report submission - and then report it manually to Tesla requesting it get up to the advanced autopilot team. Otherwise they’re going to be focused on other priority items and may not get around to training it on your particular issue.

 

[pjscott]

I’m three weeks into ownership and the AP feels like it’s playing chicken with oncoming traffic just by virtue of how late it takes a curve. (This is on two lane marked roads.) It takes an iron will to let it keep control when there're cars coming in the other direction. Often it takes a sharp corner so late it has to slow down. I find this odd, because the map can tell it the road curvature ahead; heck, it can see cars in my lane turning ahead of me; but it seems to have a rather limited visibility into curves.

 

[GolanB]

I’m three weeks into ownership and the AP feels like it’s playing chicken with oncoming traffic just by virtue of how late it takes a curve. (This is on two lane marked roads.) It takes an iron will to let it keep control when there're cars coming in the other direction. Often it takes a sharp corner so late it has to slow down. I find this odd, because the map can tell it the road curvature ahead; heck, it can see cars in my lane turning ahead of me; but it seems to have a rather limited visibility into curves.

This particular issue you are describing (determining curvature beyond the occlusion area) is improving all the time, but it still has a way to go.

If your gut tells you be careful, be extra vigilant.

There are some roads I won’t allow AP to drive on because of the risks involved- I am sometimes what feels like 12-16 inches away from oncoming traffic (particularly over one lift-bridge here in NJ where the roads narrow for a brief period) with a combined speed (40-45 mph per direction) of close to 80 - 90 mph. One slight slip and it can be serious G-d forbid. I’ve noticed some drivers manually shift to the outside lanes to avoid the risk of leaning in too closely to the opposing lane.

 

[Fernand]

@GolanB is right. Listen to your paranoid 'guardian angel'. You develop more exact expectations over time. But at first always assume anything could happen at any time and don't push your luck. What for?

We tend to want to get categorical answers. like does this f'ing thing work or not? Well, it's very capable, but not foolproof. Remember that it doesn't see very sharply or very far ahead compared to an alert human. On the other hand it's got eyes where we don't, like in the blind spots. So just treat it like any other tool, it's meant to be your helper.

 

[Knightshade]

I’m three weeks into ownership and the AP feels like it’s playing chicken with oncoming traffic just by virtue of how late it takes a curve. (This is on two lane marked roads.) It takes an iron will to let it keep control when there're cars coming in the other direction. Often it takes a sharp corner so late it has to slow down. I find this odd, because the map can tell it the road curvature ahead; heck, it can see cars in my lane turning ahead of me; but it seems to have a rather limited visibility into curves.

AP is explicitly not intended to be used on roads with 2-way, oncoming, traffic.

It's baffling to me that people keep using it places they're told not to and then being surprised when it doesn't work perfectly there.

 

[derotam]

I’m three weeks into ownership and the AP feels like it’s playing chicken with oncoming traffic just by virtue of how late it takes a curve. (This is on two lane marked roads.) It takes an iron will to let it keep control when there're cars coming in the other direction. Often it takes a sharp corner so late it has to slow down. I find this odd, because the map can tell it the road curvature ahead; heck, it can see cars in my lane turning ahead of me; but it seems to have a rather limited visibility into curves.

Perhaps you should take a break and read the manual, specifically all the WARNINGS.

I agree with Knightshade and I too am amazed that people complain about things that AP is not currently designed to do.

 

[duanra]

AP is explicitly not intended to be used on roads with 2-way, oncoming, traffic.

It's baffling to me that people keep using it places they're told not to and then being surprised when it doesn't work perfectly there.

So the AP is good to be used on 4+ lanes highway with good markings, light traffic, good weather, no sharp curves, both hands on the wheel (you can't pick your nose), 100% concentrated, expecting the worse !

(Sorry, I couldn't help it )

 

[derotam]

So the AP is good to be used on 4+ lanes highway with good markings, light traffic, good weather, no sharp curves, both hands on the wheel (you can't pick your nose), 100% concentrated, expecting the worse !

(Sorry, I couldn't help it )

Yes, that's basically what the manual says.

 

[banned-66611]

It's baffling to me that people keep using it places they're told not to and then being surprised when it doesn't work perfectly there.

It's baffling that Tesla doesn't just disable it when it notices that it's on a road it isn't certified for. Between GPS and the ability to detect on-coming traffic in a lane without a divider it seems like it should be easily possible.

It's almost as if Tesla is encouraging people to use AP in a danger, unsupported manner so they can gather more data.

 

[turnem]

AP is explicitly not intended to be used on roads with 2-way, oncoming, traffic.

It's baffling to me that people keep using it places they're told not to and then being surprised when it doesn't work perfectly there.

I was waiting on this comment to be made.

If they TRULY didn't want us to use AP on roads with 2-way oncoming traffic then they wouldn't allow us to enable it. The car knows EXACTLY what type of road we are on.

I know what it says in the manual. But we all know that it's there for legal purposes. Tesla WANTS us to use AP as much as possible so that they can learn and improve.

 

[GolanB]

It's baffling that Tesla doesn't just disable it when it notices that it's on a road it isn't certified for. Between GPS and the ability to detect on-coming traffic in a lane without a divider it seems like it should be easily possible.

It's almost as if Tesla is encouraging people to use AP in a danger, unsupported manner so they can gather more data.

This is no secret; it’s out in the open. We are effectively an important partner in the data collection process, accruing information and baby sitting autopilot while we pay for the privilege.

 

[duanra]

Pay for the privilege?

 

[GolanB]

Pay for the privilege?

Yes; some more than others. The model is brilliant if you think about it, but it does weigh heavily on us as buyers to contribute our driving hours and dollars. All other autonomous vehicle companies are trying to compete with this model and collecting far less data and little or no revenue in the process.

 

[duanra]

Yes; some more than others. The model is brilliant if you think about it, but it does weigh heavily on us as buyers to contribute our driving hours and dollars. All other autonomous vehicle companies are trying to compete with this model and collecting far less data and little or no revenue in the process.

That is the part I am having a hard time with. Why should I pay for testing a product ? I'll buy a product when it is ready. And I'll give money to charity.

 

[Nix Alba]

Yes, I always keep at least on hand on the wheel and I get nagged constantly. I squeeze the wheel, push, pull on it, still get a nag. Maybe I am supposed to jiggle it?

There's a difference between keeping your hand on the wheel, and keeping a little pressure on the wheel. I find that it's quite possible to have your hand on the wheel and still get the nag alert. If you don't apply sufficient pressure -- which doesn't have to be a lot, the system cannot detect that your hand is there. There's a little technique involved.