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Don't use EVs in texas if you don't have your own home

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In Austin, TX there are many apartments complexes and employers with EV charging...

National Instuments, Visa, Charles Schwab to name a couple. Can also mention that in Austin, you can pay $4.17 a month for rights to charge at the 250+ chargepoint chargers around Travis County... Good luck driving any other vehicle at that rate, hell, let them triple that price, still a deal.
 
Let's see: Average mid grade price includes the year 2000. That's 22 years ago. There are people working full time right now who were born back that.

Want to get weirder? Back in the late 1950's, when a passenger in my parents cars, I remember gas a $0.149 a gallon. Yeah, 14 cents a gallon. Coming back from camping with the Boy Scouts in the early 1960's? A regular burger at McDonalds, yeah, that McDonalds, was $0.25.

So, citing gas prices from 2000 is, like, a) stupid, b) disingenuous, and c) just nuts.

Yes: Tesla electrical energy prices have gone up since I got a Tesla in 2018. So have electricity prices.

Let's see: Fast mid-grade gas prices right now in Austin, TX: GasBuddy says: $3.43 a gallon. 28 m/gal car gets you $3.43/gal x 1 gal/28 mi = 12 cents per mile. Let's say the SC's on the high side at $0.44/kW-hr. An M3 gets about 250 W-h/mile; so that's $0.44/kW-hr x 0.25 kW-hr/mile = 11 cents.

That would just be about parity, with the Tesla winning. Except the Tesla doesn't need oil changes, water pump changes, and has a heck of a lot fewer mechanical moving parts to go wrong.

And, finally: If one is getting electricity from home: That's typically 1/3 to 1/4 of the cost at an SC. Which is what Tesla says: If you're going on trips, it Superchargers. If you're local, use your local electrical.
Just wanted to add some more info. Over the last month or so, in NJ, Tesla has gone to time-based variable pricing. Not in all places, mind you, but, when I checked this morning, it was most of the places in central NJ. Near as I can tell, this is also true in Maine and Massachusetts; not sure about other places.

More or less: Between noon and 9 p.m., people charging pay full freight, whatever full freight is. Say it's $0.54/kW-hr. Between 9 p.m. and noon the next day, it's $0.27/kW-hr.

From what I've been able to figure, rates like these are popping up in MA and ME. Further, the couple of places I checked (one can only see this on the car's NAV screen) in NYC, their rates were somewhere between the two listed above.

Now, in NJ, ratepayers are paying around $0.16 to $0.18 per kW-hr. So, that $0.54 is about 3.5 times the cost of a residential cost; the $0.27 is about 1.5 the residential cost.

Now, let's compare the cost per mile for three cars: A Tesla Model 3 that gets 250 W-hr/mile; a Prius hybrid that gets 50 mpg; and a $RANDOM pure-ICE that gets, for the sake of argument, 30 mpg. Further, let's say that gas is $4.00/gallon.

Table:
CarRatingCost per mile, day ($/kW-hr)Cost per mile, night ($/kW-hr)Cost per mile, home ($/kW-hr)
$0.54​
$0.27$0.18
Tesla M3250 W-hr/mile
$0.1350​
$0.0675​
$0.0450​
Prius (mpg)
50​
$0.0800​
$0.0800​
$0.0800​
ICE (mpg)
30​
$0.1333​
$0.1333​
$0.1333​
Cost of gas:
$4​

And there you have it. When going long distances, a Tesla is about parity with a bog-standard ICE but gets beat by a Prius. If one lives in an apartment complex or condo where there's no access to home charging, one would presumably take a trip either before work or after dinner once or thrice a week to charge the car and would handily beat both the ICE and Prius. And, of course, if one charges at home, one blows away anything gas-powered.

Further caveat: None of the above covers maintenance costs that ICEs have but Teslas don't, or are vastly reduced on a Tesla as compared to an ICE: Oil changes, brake jobs, etc.

Note that Tesla might actually be paying less for electricity at night; power companies have rates like that, in which case Tesla is simply passing their savings onto their customers. But could anybody imagine the fooferaw that would ensue if a gas station was changing the price per gallon up and down by half, depending upon the time of day 😁?

Comments?
 
Just wanted to add some more info. Over the last month or so, in NJ, Tesla has gone to time-based variable pricing. Not in all places, mind you, but, when I checked this morning, it was most of the places in central NJ. Near as I can tell, this is also true in Maine and Massachusetts; not sure about other places.

More or less: Between noon and 9 p.m., people charging pay full freight, whatever full freight is. Say it's $0.54/kW-hr. Between 9 p.m. and noon the next day, it's $0.27/kW-hr.

From what I've been able to figure, rates like these are popping up in MA and ME. Further, the couple of places I checked (one can only see this on the car's NAV screen) in NYC, their rates were somewhere between the two listed above.

Now, in NJ, ratepayers are paying around $0.16 to $0.18 per kW-hr. So, that $0.54 is about 3.5 times the cost of a residential cost; the $0.27 is about 1.5 the residential cost.

Now, let's compare the cost per mile for three cars: A Tesla Model 3 that gets 250 W-hr/mile; a Prius hybrid that gets 50 mpg; and a $RANDOM pure-ICE that gets, for the sake of argument, 30 mpg. Further, let's say that gas is $4.00/gallon.

Table:
CarRatingCost per mile, day ($/kW-hr)Cost per mile, night ($/kW-hr)Cost per mile, home ($/kW-hr)
$0.54​
$0.27$0.18
Tesla M3250 W-hr/mile
$0.1350​
$0.0675​
$0.0450​
Prius (mpg)
50​
$0.0800​
$0.0800​
$0.0800​
ICE (mpg)
30​
$0.1333​
$0.1333​
$0.1333​
Cost of gas:
$4​

And there you have it. When going long distances, a Tesla is about parity with a bog-standard ICE but gets beat by a Prius. If one lives in an apartment complex or condo where there's no access to home charging, one would presumably take a trip either before work or after dinner once or thrice a week to charge the car and would handily beat both the ICE and Prius. And, of course, if one charges at home, one blows away anything gas-powered.

Further caveat: None of the above covers maintenance costs that ICEs have but Teslas don't, or are vastly reduced on a Tesla as compared to an ICE: Oil changes, brake jobs, etc.

Note that Tesla might actually be paying less for electricity at night; power companies have rates like that, in which case Tesla is simply passing their savings onto their customers. But could anybody imagine the fooferaw that would ensue if a gas station was changing the price per gallon up and down by half, depending upon the time of day 😁?

Comments?
Why do people keep comparing Teslas to Priuses? You don't see people comparing Dodge Charger Hellcats or Ford Mustangs or Chevrolet Camaros to Priuses because they're not even in the same league. But for some reason people compare Teslas and Priuses like they are in the same league, but they are absolutely not. I drive a Tesla but would never drive a Prius because I can't stand how gutless those things are. Tesla vs. RAV4 Prime may be a more fair comparison, at least on straight line acceleration but I've not driven the latter so can't comment on cornering capabilities.
 
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Why do people keep comparing Teslas to Priuses? You don't see people comparing Dodge Charger Hellcats or Ford Mustangs or Chevrolet Camaros to Priuses because they're not even in the same league. But for some reason people compare Teslas and Priuses like they are in the same league, but they are absolutely not. I drive a Tesla but would never drive a Prius because I can't stand how gutless those things are. Tesla vs. RAV4 Prime may be a more fair comparison, at least on straight line acceleration but I've not driven the latter so can't comment on cornering capabilities.
Um. The comparison exists because Priuses have costs per mile that are right at the limit of what can be done with a four-occupant ICE that's powered by gasoline. Smaller hybrids actually get worse gas mileage. Larger hybrids definitely do. The reasoning is kind of interesting and has to do with, on one end of the spectrum, turbulence; on the other end, mass and acceleration.

One the smaller end, there's a Reason that large cargo ships exist: The fuel cost per ton of cargo goes down as a ship gets larger because the turbulence goes up as the square of the length of the ship, but the amount of mass carried goes up by the cube. Interestingly, the maximum speed of a displacement hull goes up with the length of that hull (a nuke aircraft carrier can go lots faster than a destroyer). But small cars like, say, one of those SMART cars have a heck of a lot of turbulence for the amount of mass, and therefore get rotten gas mileage, around 25 mpg. Heck, Camry's get better than that!

At the other end of the spectrum, with larger cars, one runs into the fact that accelerating a larger car requires more energy, by E = m(V2^2 - V1^2). So, there's this sweet spot, and Priuses inhabit that spot. Throw into the mix that a Prius has, for a small car, relatively comfortable seating and ride and can ferry, say, three people and their luggage long distances.

Not the same class as a Tesla, sure - but close enough for the frugal. And cheaper than a Tesla.

On the down side, as a hybrid, a Prius has all the maintenance fun and games of an ICE (oil changes, etc.) and the added complexity, such as it is, of an electric. Except that Toyota went completely out of their way to make the Prius as reliable as possible. Electric oil pumps to pre-oil the ICE before starting it, regen braking so it's easy on the brakes, careful selection of the battery technology so it wouldn't wear out quickly, etc.

So, for comparison purposes, a Prius as an ICE is about as good as one is going to get for an ICE. If one can beat a Prius on costs, then there's pretty much nothing out there else ICE out there can.

But, as you correctly point out, the vast majority of ICE drivers aren't driving Priuses. Hence, the throwaway 30 mpg car in the table. There's better ICE cars (but none as good as the Prius) and much worser cars, but 30 mpg is in the mainstream.

Minor, additional comment: Pretty much all other BEVs out there don't have the W-hr/mile ratings of the Teslas. That'll improve over time, I suppose, but doesn't change the major downstep in costs that a BEV has over an ICE, especially with home charging.
 
We have owned our Model 3 since 2020 and have found maintenance and charging to be more than manageable. We typically charge overnight as most of our driving is just into town and back. We are planning some longer trips and looking at accessing chargers along the routes. So far, we have not had any issues. Even had access to chargers at the Grand Canyon last year. I am just thrilled that my husband no longer had to do those grimy oil changes or other petroleum related work on the car.
 
my son learned to drive in a Prius. He called it the most hateful car he'd ever driven and refuses to get in one now.
Even a learner driver could feel how appalling the driving experience was.
Numb steering, numb brakes, zero acceleration, terrible stopping, skinny tires.

I always remember the Top Gear episode where they drove a Prius and a BMW 3 series around the track.
All the BMW had to do was keep up - and the BMW had better mpg at the end.
All that to say that driving a Prius to get 50mpg is terrible experience, while driving a Model 3 to 249 allows you to enjoy it.
Context - My Model 3 has averaged 252wh/mile over 57k mile of driving, lots of spirited driving and commutes etc etc.
 
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Reactions: ElectricIAC
my son learned to drive in a Prius. He called it the most hateful car he'd ever driven and refuses to get in one now.
Even a learner driver could feel how appalling the driving experience was.
Numb steering, numb brakes, zero acceleration, terrible stopping, skinny tires.

I always remember the Top Gear episode where they drove a Prius and a BMW 3 series around the track.
All the BMW had to do was keep up - and the BMW had better mpg at the end.
All that to say that driving a Prius to get 50mpg is terrible experience, while driving a Model 3 to 249 allows you to enjoy it.
Context - My Model 3 has averaged 252wh/mile over 57k mile of driving, lots of spirited driving and commutes etc etc.
How many % of the 57k mi are highway?
I’ve heard m3lr could do only ~230mi @ 75mph with AC
 
my son learned to drive in a Prius. He called it the most hateful car he'd ever driven and refuses to get in one now.
Even a learner driver could feel how appalling the driving experience was.
Numb steering, numb brakes, zero acceleration, terrible stopping, skinny tires.

I always remember the Top Gear episode where they drove a Prius and a BMW 3 series around the track.
All the BMW had to do was keep up - and the BMW had better mpg at the end.
All that to say that driving a Prius to get 50mpg is terrible experience, while driving a Model 3 to 249 allows you to enjoy it.
Context - My Model 3 has averaged 252wh/mile over 57k mile of driving, lots of spirited driving and commutes etc etc.
Um. Not arguing too hard. But, since I first started driving cars around in the 1970's, all of those cars were econoboxes. '71 VW Beetle, Datsun B210, Dodge Colt, Honda Accord (back when they were tinier than a current Civic), Honda Civic station wagon, a 2002 Civic (bigger than the Accord!), and, finally, the Prius.

The Prius had more get-up and go than any of those previous cars, got better gas mileage, and couldn't be made to skid without heroic efforts in the presence of snow and ice. Including on iced-up interstates in Connecticut with other cars spinning out all over.

Better riding and handling than any of the previous cars, with the possible exception of the 2002 Civic on the handling part. (Back seat of the Prius was better than either of the Civics.)

Getting up to 45 mpg on local and highway wasn't that hard; in fact, the displays on a Prius make it a kind of game that's easy to win. What was kind of crazed was discovering that it kept its 50 mpg rating on a North-to-South run one summer on the Blue Ridge Parkway, and we're not talking about taking it easy on the uphills, either. Downhills on mountains get to be kind of fun, and one discovers that there's a Reason that the Prius has a "B" (for engine braking) on the shift knob.

A sporty car, the Prius ain't. And anybody who attempts to drive one like it is discovers pretty quickly that (a) the gas mileage suffers when one tries and (b) this car is never going to win anything at Monaco. But Baha-modified VW's notwithstanding, all of the econoboxes (except maybe the Colt) supported 4-wheel drifts in the snow and ice. The Prius kind of doesn't support 4-wheel drifts, mainly because its anti-skid is so blame aggressive (has to do with regen braking only on the front wheels, I think) that the best one can do is, kind of, slide at a 20% angle to the direction of travel by cranking the steering wheel over and gassing it. That's the Gen III Prius; the Gen IV looks sportier, but probably isn't. In any case, there's, what, 170 HP between the gas and electric motors in the thing, so, for an econobox, there's really no problem merging onto interstates.

Naturally, Top Gear wants, well, Top-Gear kinds of cars. I'd love to hear their opinions about SMART cars; they're probably unprintable. BMW are sporty driving machines; Priuses definitely aren't in that class.

What is amazing is that, what with all that electrical motor torque and goodness, how the most cost-effective, fuel-efficient, fast-accelerating vehicles on the road are Teslas. So, Tesla is attracting not just the econobox crowd who go beserk over that 135+ MPGe, the nuclear family types who like the storage volume, but also the roadies who can't wait to take their M3Ps up Pikes Peak in record time.

There's only one thing I don't like about the M3: Rear seat comfort is worse than the Prius. That's fixed in the Y, X, and S, but, still. For two people in the front, still pretty good, though.
 
Here's a light snack for you . . .

Dead dinosaurs are somewhere round the - actually I have no idea because I don't buy the stuff, but let's go with $3.00 a gallon

Now you can install an underground tank at your house and get a commercial delivery at say $2.00 a gallon

Moral of the story is:

DO NOT EVER buy an ICE car of any kind in Texas if you don't have your own home.