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It looks like the cabin heater is right next to the air filters connected to the orange wires. Wonder how terrible it would be if one was to disconnect the power to this device? It looks like there are 2 connecters, I'm guessing 1 is power and the other is the communication interface. Or maybe wire up a switch to allow one to manually toggle the heater?

PTC Heater Core Element Temperature Control 1088218-00-H OEM Tesla Model 3 2018

BorgWarner To Supply Unnamed EV Auto Manufacturer With PTC Cabin Heating Tech, To Improve Range | CleanTechnica
 
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I suspect that adding the requested heater toggle is likely the most intuitive solution since many owners already have the analogous AC toggle....

But, the engineer in me likes the house thermostat approach where I would probably have the heater setpoint at 60 F and the AC setpoint at 74 F. That would allow ambient conditions from 60F to 74F to NOT engage either AC or heater, only vent. Then if temperatures went beyond the setpoint I would not necessarily have to mess with the settings. I tend to tolerate a cold car a bit more than a hot one, but either way I really am tired of futzing with the buttons constantly

I like this idea. I like an automated climate control system. When it's cool/cold out I'll lower the temp (maybe 60-65) and fire up the seat heaters to save power. But in the afternoon I end up with a blasting A/C trying to over cool the car and have to turn the temp back up. The two temp settings (just like my home thermostat) would work well. In all cases there could be a low speed fan going to keep the air circulating.
 
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I ended up finding the right plug to disconnect the cabin heater. Fairly sure it's the CAN interface connector with 4 very small gauge wires. And my display reports cabin heating currently unavailable.
After doing this my average consumption dropped from about 240 wh/mi to 229 wh/m. That's a 4.8% increase in range which I don't consider trivial.
The car gets cooler and less humid quicker and I don't have to fiddle with the whole AC off and set temp to Lo in the mornings and then turning ac back on when it heats up.
Since I tried my best to never run the heater before pulling the plug I would not have expected such an increase in range, but it seems like when the AC is on it keeps the chiller running all the time and uses the cabin heater to be what actually regulates the temperature.

The downsides are
If it's 85 outside and I set the temp to 81 with the AC on the inside temp goes to 68 with no heater to "tune" the temp. So I have to turn the AC off from time to time.
I can't set the temp of the car remotely.
I get the warning messages on the screen.

I can deal with the above issues for an additional ~16 miles of range in my M3 LR RWD. Prob could increase that value by running the AC even less cause I get cold quick when it's 85 outside.

Will try to post a video and some pics of where connector is. Trying to guess why Tesla would hamper their range but my only guess is that it gives them ways to offer software range upgrades in the future, or if it's a straight bug in their HVAC design.
 
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So the cabin heater is definitely used when trying to only cool the car.
Looks like it's on the order of around 2000 watts according to Mr. Jwardells CAN logger...
Any way to disable heat in Model 3? - Tesla Owners Online
Screen Shot 2019-11-13 at 11.56.19 PM.png

Since it appears the cabin cooling AC seems to be either full on or full off and tesla uses the cabin heater to "regulate" the temp it has to crank out 2kw of power to the cabin heater to fight the cooling AC. This is not a trivial amount of power being wasted by the HVAC system.
Are all the "auto mode works great why would you want a heater off button" people still cool burning 2kw of juice when its 85 out and you're trying to just cool the cabin? I'm guessing they are, and I'm guessing they dont take many long drives / roadtrips.
 
So the cabin heater is definitely used when trying to only cool the car.
Looks like it's on the order of around 2000 watts according to Mr. Jwardells CAN logger...
Any way to disable heat in Model 3? - Tesla Owners Online
View attachment 477147
Since it appears the cabin cooling AC seems to be either full on or full off and tesla uses the cabin heater to "regulate" the temp it has to crank out 2kw of power to the cabin heater to fight the cooling AC. This is not a trivial amount of power being wasted by the HVAC system.
Are all the "auto mode works great why would you want a heater off button" people still cool burning 2kw of juice when its 85 out and you're trying to just cool the cabin? I'm guessing they are, and I'm guessing they dont take many long drives / roadtrips.

This is great information, but I don't think the cabin-cooling AC system runs full-on or off-off only. When you first turn-on the AC in the summer, you can hear the compressor running loudly, but it starts to ramp-down as the cabin begins to cool. I would bet it's a variable stroke/variable load compressor.
 
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This is great information, but I don't think the cabin-cooling AC system runs full-on or off-off only. When you first turn-on the AC in the summer, you can hear the compressor running loudly, but it starts to ramp-down as the cabin begins to cool. I would bet it's a variable stroke/variable load compressor.
I would take that bet but it would be stealing because of
1. I spoke with a Tesla SC tech and he admitted the cabin heater is being run all the time when the AC is on and you are just trying to just cool the car.

2. The data from the CAN bus plot clearly shows there is around 1000w being pulled from both the left&right cabin heater when he said he was trying to cool the car to 21C when it was a "warmish day". At the end of the test he cranked the heat up to the max to see what the total power the cabin heater which was 3350W per side for 6700w total.

3. After I pulled the cabin heater plug Ive been seeing an extra 5 miles of range in my 80 mile commute when driving in 85F weather with the AC on all the time. The AC drove the cabin temp to 68F regardless of my temp setpoint so I had to toggle the AC to throttle the temp to keep it closer to 70
 
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Who changed the thread title? It's now lost some of its meaning. Not only do I want the vent but I also don't want the heater running when I am trying to cool the car with AC. Also it doesn't convey the frustration of having to fiddle with the touchscreen HVAC controls a couple times every time I drive the car.
Yes, we all appear to know that turning AC off and setting to LO works, but then you have to turn AC back on and reset your temp setpoint once it gets hot again and vice versa.

I don't want the heater on, damnit!!!
 
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So the cabin heater is definitely used when trying to only cool the car.
Looks like it's on the order of around 2000 watts according to Mr. Jwardells CAN logger...
Any way to disable heat in Model 3? - Tesla Owners Online
View attachment 477147
Since it appears the cabin cooling AC seems to be either full on or full off and tesla uses the cabin heater to "regulate" the temp it has to crank out 2kw of power to the cabin heater to fight the cooling AC. This is not a trivial amount of power being wasted by the HVAC system.
Are all the "auto mode works great why would you want a heater off button" people still cool burning 2kw of juice when its 85 out and you're trying to just cool the cabin? I'm guessing they are, and I'm guessing they dont take many long drives / roadtrips.

The A/C is definitely not "full on or full off." It sets an evaporator temperature based on current conditions (interior temperature, desired temperature, humidity, sun load). It will then adjust the fan speed to use what it thinks is the minimum air volume required to maintain occupant temp. If humidity is high and it needs to do more dehumidification without providing a lot of cabin cooling, the system will add heat to bring the discharge air temperature up (it's called re-heat).

On a really hot day, the system will provide more fan speed while maintaining the same evaporator temperature. The additional load from the increased air flow causes the compressor speed to increase in order to maintain the evaporator setpoint. No heat should be added on a hot day.

On a cool day, the system will use outside air for cooling instead of running the compressor, which saves energy.

If, as your example describes, the system is heating and cooling simultaneously, it's because it is trying to dehumidify without freezing the occupants out with excessively cold air from the vents. Simply ramping down the compressor might increase the evaporator temperature above the dewpoint, resulting in no dehumidification.

This operation is pretty industry standard theory for commercial and car HVAC systems.

All of that said, Tesla is pretty aggressive with re-heat, particularly with the floor vents. Oftentimes I find the dash vents blowing cool outside air while the floor vents are roasting my feet. They could dial back the floor discharge temperature target a bit and save energy and increase occupant comfort. I think this is a remnant of Tesla addressing cold floor heating performance in Model S & X and they ended up going a little overboard.
 
The A/C is definitely not "full on or full off." It sets an evaporator temperature based on current conditions (interior temperature, desired temperature, humidity, sun load). It will then adjust the fan speed to use what it thinks is the minimum air volume required to maintain occupant temp. If humidity is high and it needs to do more dehumidification without providing a lot of cabin cooling, the system will add heat to bring the discharge air temperature up (it's called re-heat).

On a really hot day, the system will provide more fan speed while maintaining the same evaporator temperature. The additional load from the increased air flow causes the compressor speed to increase in order to maintain the evaporator setpoint. No heat should be added on a hot day.

On a cool day, the system will use outside air for cooling instead of running the compressor, which saves energy.

If, as your example describes, the system is heating and cooling simultaneously, it's because it is trying to dehumidify without freezing the occupants out with excessively cold air from the vents. Simply ramping down the compressor might increase the evaporator temperature above the dewpoint, resulting in no dehumidification.

This operation is pretty industry standard theory for commercial and car HVAC systems.

All of that said, Tesla is pretty aggressive with re-heat, particularly with the floor vents. Oftentimes I find the dash vents blowing cool outside air while the floor vents are roasting my feet. They could dial back the floor discharge temperature target a bit and save energy and increase occupant comfort. I think this is a remnant of Tesla addressing cold floor heating performance in Model S & X and they ended up going a little overboard.
I wish we got free heat like ICE cars but we don't.
If it's 85 outside and I set the temp setpoint to 81 do you think the car should really cool to 68 with the heater unplugged? If I set the setpoint to 70 it went to 68 as well. Seems very much 1 speed to me / it turns itself off at 68 but back on if it goes above it. The humidity level actually felt dryer than before, will try to get a decent humidity sensor to test myself. Regardless I could deal with some extra humidity in my cooled air to remove a constant 2kw power drain to power the cabin heater on a hot day. But the car feels extra cool to me / less humid when I unplug the heater so I'm not sure if that's really an issue.
 
I wish we got free heat like ICE cars but we don't.
If it's 85 outside and I set the temp setpoint to 81 do you think the car should really cool to 68 with the heater unplugged? If I set the setpoint to 70 it went to 68 as well. Seems very much 1 speed to me / it turns itself off at 68 but back on if it goes above it. The humidity level actually felt dryer than before, will try to get a decent humidity sensor to test myself. Regardless I could deal with some extra humidity in my cooled air to remove a constant 2kw power drain to power the cabin heater on a hot day. But the car feels extra cool to me / less humid when I unplug the heater so I'm not sure if that's really an issue.

“Free heat” isn’t really free. It costs you all day, every day, in the form of waste heat being dumped out of the radiator. In the winter time, you just get to point some of it at you rather than dumping it straight outside. 60 - 70 % of the energy in a gallon of gas gets dumped out the radiator.

An electric vehicle is much more efficient overall even when you’re heating the cabin using battery power.

Regarding your experiment, it’s possible that unplugging the cabin heater puts the system into some sort of fault state where it doesn’t regulate correctly.
 
Can probably do a work around with Tasker script (Android) and the Tesla plugin for it and use when BT is connected to the car or an NFC tag on the car to trigger it. Ill mess around with it later, but from a quick look, it can be done:

IE. 70F is my auto setpoint. Just pseudo code, can play around with more conditions

(Trigger on BT connection, or NFC tag on my phone mount)
If (outSideTemp < 70)
{
  • SetTempToLo();
  • ACOff();
  • RecircOff();
  • AutoOff();
}
else
{
  • SetTempTo70();
  • ACON();
  • AutoOn();
  • RecircOn();
}

Of course it can be tweaked more, like adding dead zone. but thats the general idea.
 
Can probably do a work around with Tasker script (Android) and the Tesla plugin for it and use when BT is connected to the car or an NFC tag on the car to trigger it. Ill mess around with it later, but from a quick look, it can be done:

IE. 70F is my auto setpoint. Just pseudo code, can play around with more conditions

(Trigger on BT connection, or NFC tag on my phone mount)
If (outSideTemp < 70)
{
  • SetTempToLo();
  • ACOff();
  • RecircOff();
  • AutoOff();
}
else
{
  • SetTempTo70();
  • ACON();
  • AutoOn();
  • RecircOn();
}

Of course it can be tweaked more, like adding dead zone. but thats the general idea.
This would be freaking awesome but I don't think the AC off function works on the M3 with the tasker plugin last I tried. It could only get the whole HVAC system on or off. The plugin developer sai
Can probably do a work around with Tasker script (Android) and the Tesla plugin for it and use when BT is connected to the car or an NFC tag on the car to trigger it. Ill mess around with it later, but from a quick look, it can be done:

IE. 70F is my auto setpoint. Just pseudo code, can play around with more conditions

(Trigger on BT connection, or NFC tag on my phone mount)
If (outSideTemp < 70)
{
  • SetTempToLo();
  • ACOff();
  • RecircOff();
  • AutoOff();
}
else
{
  • SetTempTo70();
  • ACON();
  • AutoOn();
  • RecircOn();
}

Of course it can be tweaked more, like adding dead zone. but thats the general idea.
This would be freaking awesome but I don't think the AC off function works on the M3 with the tasker plugin last I tried. It could only get the whole HVAC system on or off. The plugin developer said the M3 API doesnt support the AC off function yet ...