SSD420
Member
Yesss!!! It's THAT bad. Tesla said when they figure out how to resolve it, they'll let me know. I'm getting used to it, but really, should I have to "just get used to it?"
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Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?
- Thread starter rmiggins
- Start date
Finally, tonight I drove with my Maui Jims outfitted with HT lenses. I have two different pairs, but tonight I was wearing Lighthouse.
They definitely cut out the ghosting, just as they do during the day. As far as visibility goes, I think they're adequate. My night vision is already a bit lacking, so they were borderline for me. But I imagine they'd be fine if you're accustomed to driving at night. They're certainly worth consideration for this, and the upside is that they're great daytime and cloudy day glasses as well.
They definitely cut out the ghosting, just as they do during the day. As far as visibility goes, I think they're adequate. My night vision is already a bit lacking, so they were borderline for me. But I imagine they'd be fine if you're accustomed to driving at night. They're certainly worth consideration for this, and the upside is that they're great daytime and cloudy day glasses as well.
Where should I go from here after ghosting and a bad/dissapointing Sales Manager experience?:
I recently paid the deposit on the purchase of a MX and couldn't wait to firm the order up and get the clock moving. That is until I ran into a ghosting issue that was cause for concern, did some digging and was met with a Sales Manager that pulled a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde on me...
During my over-night test drive I encountered the same ghosting issue with double to triple ghosting of concentrated light sources and especially tail lights. I had no clue this was even a known issue until I started doing research (I' ve spent a substantial amount of time lurking on the MS portion of the forums in the past and never paid much attention to the MX posts).I figured my eyes were tired, but that was simply not the case when my family noticed the same issue.
I spoke to my OA and setup some time to meet with him late in the evening to see if adjusting the seat or wearing my corrective lenses would fix the issue. After sitting in the parking lot for some time and running out for a test drive here is what I've found:
Stats: I wear the lowest Rx reading glasses available (rarely) with blue/glare blocker/corrective for astigmatism/ I am ~ 6' 3"
Details on my Findings:
- The ghosting is very visible in the middle portion of the windshield and gradually decreases towards the top and bottom
- As the light from the source transitions to the left and right side of the windshield the ghost images/lights spread out further. i.e. the ghost image seems to spread away from the source when you are facing it at a more extreme angle making it even worse (I spend half my time in the mountains and as you can imagine the roads are extremely curvy making this particular issue even worse)
-When looking at the windshield with an over-head light source I notice a heavy ripple effect that isn't visible on any of my current cars EV and ICE.
- Adjusting the seat does not correct the issue however wearing my tinted/polarized maui lenses does reduce the ghosting/glare
I advised my OA that I was not comfortable proceeding with the purchase at this time and that I would like to have the initial deposit credited back while I reach out to a few folks to potentially find a solution.
When the Store/Sales Manager approached I received the usual cordial greeting and the OA explained the situation which resulted in a complete change of personality/tone on the Managers part.
I advised that I believe installing a specific type of filter/film on the windshield would resolve the issue and I would be looking into it and re-placing my order once I've had a chance to test the theory. He stops me mid-sentence and tells me he is already aware of what I'm claiming to see on the test drive MX and the floor model MX and that it's normal (The OA advised me that the Manager stated that this is common in high end cars and sports cars and it's to be expected because of the windshield angle - I have to decide if it's going to keep me from my dream car).
He then gets snippy and very matter of -fact- saying 'I know what it is...it's the filament in the glass...this hasn't kept us from selling them since we only have 27 available floor models left to across the entire US.' He then walks away and gets in the MX and says 'I need to go park THIS.. SO I CAN ACTUALLY GO HOME AND SEE MY WIFE.' and off he went.
The OA looked slightly startled from the tone and said that we would talk soon since I told him I would be reaching back out as soon as we have some test options.
The difficult part is if I do find a fix (even if it's a temp in hopes for a more perm solution from Tesla)...I no longer want anything to do with this Manager. I feel the OA should be credited for his time, but the thought of my sale going to someone's store or possibly even the Southeast region that was just very unprofessional and rude to me is sickening. My order is still "On Hold" and my credit card has not been credited back since this occurred Thursday.
Any thoughts considering most of you have a lot more experience working with Tesla?
I recently paid the deposit on the purchase of a MX and couldn't wait to firm the order up and get the clock moving. That is until I ran into a ghosting issue that was cause for concern, did some digging and was met with a Sales Manager that pulled a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde on me...
During my over-night test drive I encountered the same ghosting issue with double to triple ghosting of concentrated light sources and especially tail lights. I had no clue this was even a known issue until I started doing research (I' ve spent a substantial amount of time lurking on the MS portion of the forums in the past and never paid much attention to the MX posts).I figured my eyes were tired, but that was simply not the case when my family noticed the same issue.
I spoke to my OA and setup some time to meet with him late in the evening to see if adjusting the seat or wearing my corrective lenses would fix the issue. After sitting in the parking lot for some time and running out for a test drive here is what I've found:
Stats: I wear the lowest Rx reading glasses available (rarely) with blue/glare blocker/corrective for astigmatism/ I am ~ 6' 3"
Details on my Findings:
- The ghosting is very visible in the middle portion of the windshield and gradually decreases towards the top and bottom
- As the light from the source transitions to the left and right side of the windshield the ghost images/lights spread out further. i.e. the ghost image seems to spread away from the source when you are facing it at a more extreme angle making it even worse (I spend half my time in the mountains and as you can imagine the roads are extremely curvy making this particular issue even worse)
-When looking at the windshield with an over-head light source I notice a heavy ripple effect that isn't visible on any of my current cars EV and ICE.
- Adjusting the seat does not correct the issue however wearing my tinted/polarized maui lenses does reduce the ghosting/glare
I advised my OA that I was not comfortable proceeding with the purchase at this time and that I would like to have the initial deposit credited back while I reach out to a few folks to potentially find a solution.
When the Store/Sales Manager approached I received the usual cordial greeting and the OA explained the situation which resulted in a complete change of personality/tone on the Managers part.
I advised that I believe installing a specific type of filter/film on the windshield would resolve the issue and I would be looking into it and re-placing my order once I've had a chance to test the theory. He stops me mid-sentence and tells me he is already aware of what I'm claiming to see on the test drive MX and the floor model MX and that it's normal (The OA advised me that the Manager stated that this is common in high end cars and sports cars and it's to be expected because of the windshield angle - I have to decide if it's going to keep me from my dream car).
He then gets snippy and very matter of -fact- saying 'I know what it is...it's the filament in the glass...this hasn't kept us from selling them since we only have 27 available floor models left to across the entire US.' He then walks away and gets in the MX and says 'I need to go park THIS.. SO I CAN ACTUALLY GO HOME AND SEE MY WIFE.' and off he went.
The OA looked slightly startled from the tone and said that we would talk soon since I told him I would be reaching back out as soon as we have some test options.
The difficult part is if I do find a fix (even if it's a temp in hopes for a more perm solution from Tesla)...I no longer want anything to do with this Manager. I feel the OA should be credited for his time, but the thought of my sale going to someone's store or possibly even the Southeast region that was just very unprofessional and rude to me is sickening. My order is still "On Hold" and my credit card has not been credited back since this occurred Thursday.
Any thoughts considering most of you have a lot more experience working with Tesla?
ccutrer
Active Member
Man, I'm so sorry for your experience. I hope (as if any excuse is a valid excuse) he was just tired at the end of a long, stressful day, and is normally so rude. I've had nothing but exceptional communication and manners from the Tesla people that I have interacted with.
Referencing the limited supply for a product is pretty awful. Seriously, because you're supply constrained, you feel like you can get cocky and kill demand?
Man, I get really tired of the line about it being common for laminated windshields yadda yadda. One of my pet peeves is the inability to acknowledge that other situations exist than your own. And Tesla is walking a fine line here, implying that "we can't see it, so you must be making it up," or that there aren't variations between cars. I don't know how much variation there actually is, but given how many people post here on both ends of the spectrum, I doubt that one side or the other is making it up.
I hope that you'll be able to get your situation resolved amicably. The X really is the best car I've ever ridden in/driven, and it would be sad to miss out on the experience for no reason other than a single ill tempered sales manager, or refusal to address a possible design or manufacturing defect. For me, I've just chosen to live with it, and still love the car. And hold out hope that a real solution is forthcoming. Maybe you should try contacting someone up foodchain at Tesla and report your experience with this sales manager, in hopes that he'll either improve, or be dismissed.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Thank you ccutrer and aesculusfor the insight!
I was surprised myself since my experience with Tesla's employee base has always proven to be top notch up until that point. I will admit that the overall experience, however, was a little bumpy as the MX did not have autopilot installed/active from the factory so on my first overnight I didn't get the full Tesla experience. I didn't make a fuss over it especially considering most B&Ms would never consider over-night drives and the Manager admitted it was an oversight on his part and apologized when I returned the next morning.
The reference to the current stock did surprise me as it had nothing to do with the situation...and wasn't relevant in any way whatsoever. My thought was...ok...you have a limited supply and people are still buying the MX... how many of those people did an evening test drive and better yet how many new customers pretty much have their minds made up that a purchase is in their future despite minor issues they may have with the vehicle.
When the OA passed on the info about the ghosting issue being common to sports cars and high-end vehicles my first thought that was no...no it is not common to high end vehicles and sports cars having owned a range of Lexus / Mercedes AMGs / Ferrari . They each have their own special sets of issues
I will reach out to [email protected] in the morning once I settle in and inquire about the next steps and what my options are should I decide to proceed with placing another order.
Thanks again!
I was surprised myself since my experience with Tesla's employee base has always proven to be top notch up until that point. I will admit that the overall experience, however, was a little bumpy as the MX did not have autopilot installed/active from the factory so on my first overnight I didn't get the full Tesla experience. I didn't make a fuss over it especially considering most B&Ms would never consider over-night drives and the Manager admitted it was an oversight on his part and apologized when I returned the next morning.
The reference to the current stock did surprise me as it had nothing to do with the situation...and wasn't relevant in any way whatsoever. My thought was...ok...you have a limited supply and people are still buying the MX... how many of those people did an evening test drive and better yet how many new customers pretty much have their minds made up that a purchase is in their future despite minor issues they may have with the vehicle.
When the OA passed on the info about the ghosting issue being common to sports cars and high-end vehicles my first thought that was no...no it is not common to high end vehicles and sports cars having owned a range of Lexus / Mercedes AMGs / Ferrari . They each have their own special sets of issues
I will reach out to [email protected] in the morning once I settle in and inquire about the next steps and what my options are should I decide to proceed with placing another order.
Thanks again!
Colby Boles
Member
I totally agree with your concerns regarding the ghosting - it was something that totally caught me by surprise immediately when I finally took delivery of my MX in May. This is certainly not an issue with all "high-end vehicles", but I do agree with what I think the manager was trying to imply which is that it is a potential issue with all vehicles that have low-slope windshields. Unless something special is done to the surfaces prevent internal reflections from happening, you will get noticeable ghost images, the separation of which will worsen with lower glass angles and thicknesses.
Thank you ccutrer and aesculusfor the insight!
I was surprised myself since my experience with Tesla's employee base has always proven to be top notch up until that point. I will admit that the overall experience, however, was a little bumpy as the MX did not have autopilot installed/active from the factory so on my first overnight I didn't get the full Tesla experience. I didn't make a fuss over it especially considering most B&Ms would never consider over-night drives and the Manager admitted it was an oversight on his part and apologized when I returned the next morning.
The reference to the current stock did surprise me as it had nothing to do with the situation...and wasn't relevant in any way whatsoever. My thought was...ok...you have a limited supply and people are still buying the MX... how many of those people did an evening test drive and better yet how many new customers pretty much have their minds made up that a purchase is in their future despite minor issues they may have with the vehicle.
When the OA passed on the info about the ghosting issue being common to sports cars and high-end vehicles my first thought that was no...no it is not common to high end vehicles and sports cars having owned a range of Lexus / Mercedes AMGs / Ferrari . They each have their own special sets of issues
I will reach out to [email protected] in the morning once I settle in and inquire about the next steps and what my options are should I decide to proceed with placing another order.
Thanks again!
EV-lutioin
Active Member
Ha, "normal for high end cars", the big thing that sets Tesla apart is that it tries to be better than every other car, so settling for "normal" does not seem like a very good argument. It is a superior car and should have (and usually does have) exemplary service.
Wow Just came across everyone's comments last night: I sent the following to Tesla:
I drove the X for the first time tonight after dark. Initially I thought I was having a stroke, signs, street names and headlights were blurry. I then became aware I was seeing a duplicate image which was higher than the real image.
After getting home I took my old Audi Q7 on a short ride the signs etc. did not show a duplicated image.... whew! no stroke.
I then again drove the X on the same route as the Q7 the double image was back
My wife has owned a model S for 2 years I took it on the same route.... There was no double image
Understand this is not acceptable as I drive at night on a regular basis. It is in my opinion unsafe. This car will have to be returned if their is not an immediate solution to the problem. Please forward my email to your head office and advise what options are now available to me. As you know I took delivery on Sunday at 12 noon some 56 hours ago.
I drove the X for the first time tonight after dark. Initially I thought I was having a stroke, signs, street names and headlights were blurry. I then became aware I was seeing a duplicate image which was higher than the real image.
After getting home I took my old Audi Q7 on a short ride the signs etc. did not show a duplicated image.... whew! no stroke.
I then again drove the X on the same route as the Q7 the double image was back
My wife has owned a model S for 2 years I took it on the same route.... There was no double image
Understand this is not acceptable as I drive at night on a regular basis. It is in my opinion unsafe. This car will have to be returned if their is not an immediate solution to the problem. Please forward my email to your head office and advise what options are now available to me. As you know I took delivery on Sunday at 12 noon some 56 hours ago.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
Good News, I hope.... I received this from my Tesla service manager today:
Hi Marc!
Sorry it’s been a while, I have heard back and there is a new windshield coming mid Oct. I have turned your car in as a priority when the glass is released.
I will let you know when it is released!
Thank you!
Hi Marc!
Sorry it’s been a while, I have heard back and there is a new windshield coming mid Oct. I have turned your car in as a priority when the glass is released.
I will let you know when it is released!
Thank you!
SSD420
Member
If this is true, I'm ecstatic... now to get a service appointment. They probably don't have any available until mid to late 2017.
Joking aside, I have an apt For something else next week, but I highly doubt that I can score a new windshield. I did report the ghosting issues in august at my last SC apt
qadaemon
Member
I really hope this is it. It's been overcast all week and all the headlights have been very distracting.
Wow, this gives me hope. I was actually on the phone with roadside service for a separate issue and I said "by the way the ghosting is horrific on my new X" and the Tesla rep said that it is a high priority for them and they are working on a fix and that she would note my car as having it. I didn't have to explain what I meant by 'ghosting' either so it must be on their radar.
I got the line "this is normal for high end cars" when I was asking about the frunk ripple that I started to notice. So I never use the frunk!
SSD420
Member
Please keep us posted if you get one that fixes the issue!! Looking at all of the multiple copies of the lights gives me a headache, and with all of the overcast days lately, that has been a lot more often! I try to avoid driving at night if I can..
I can corroborate this. My X was delivered last month with a crack under the tinting on the lower right edge of the windshield, directly under the temporary registration sticker. It wasn't caught at inspection or delivery, and even when I noticed something a few days later it just looked like the static cling sticker had a crease. The following day the crack spread and was unmistakeable. I was scheduled to have my windshield replaced at the Rocklin service center today, but was told yesterday that the X windshields are back ordered for a few weeks because they're cutting over to a new part. I was getting ghosting at night, so I'm considering this crack to be my good fortune, as it will get me the new windshield.
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