Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Downhill Regenerative Charging?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Hi everyone,

I've tried to read other threads but I'm looking for a specific answer.

I'm headed up to New Hampshire later this month and will be driving up quite a few mountains (the infamous Mt. Washington, etc.) and I've been reading that going downhill can help recharge some of the battery?

What settings do you need the car in to obtain this? Do you need Standard Regen Braking, Full Stop, and Standard Steering for this to work?

Any tips and hints would be greatly appreciated! I've owned my AWD M3 for only 4 days now so I'm trying to learn as much as possible!!

Thanks in advance,

Kyle
 
  • Funny
Reactions: lUtriaNt
Oh, and just to add that you might be surprised by the amount of energy you lose going up the mountain and then gain on the way down. As example, in my 2017 MX when I go from the Tesla factory in Fremont (almost at sea level) up to the Gigafactory in Sparks (about 4500 feet), I can lose 25-30 miles of energy getting to the top of Donner Summit (7,200 feet) and then gain a lot of it back by the time I go back down a couple thousand feet. Then going back down to the bay area, I will gain at least 20 miles back. Of course a lot of that variance depends on speed, road conditions, temperature, etc. I'm just giving any example of how variable it can be.

Oh, the only decent tip I can give you is to make sure you plug in your final destination to make sure the car calculates if you will have enough charge to get there without needing to charge. Don't do the math in your head or else you may find yourself running out of juice before you get to the top :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: lUtriaNt
As the Tesla transitions from level flight to a descent, it will use fewer and fewer kW to maintain speed. When it reaches some slope, it will need zero kW to maintain speed. As the slope further increases, the regen will begin, actually adding kW back to the battery while retarding the speed of the car. Even further steepening will produce more and more power back to the battery, until such time as the regen cannot capture all the energy it must absorb to maintain speed, and the car will then begin accelerating or the driver will have to brake with his calipers.

No settings are required for any of this to happen.
 
Steering setting will have no bearing whatsoever on regenerative braking.

If you find yourself actually touching the brake when going downhill with 'low' regenerative braking, you should be using 'standard' to get better regeneration. I suspect it would have to be going down a very steep hill for this to be the case.
 
Maybe it is a bit early but outside temp will impact you regen. Going downhill doesn't help to warm up the battery, so if it is really cold, the battery is going to cool down during the descent, hence you'll be losing regen. It has to be pretty cold though.

I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that the 3 can regen at over 50kw. Surely that in itself is enough to keep the battery warm?
 
I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that the 3 can regen at over 50kw. Surely that in itself is enough to keep the battery warm?

It is able to keep the battery warm, but if you wake up at the top of Mount Washington and its 20f overnight, regeneration will be limited by battery temperature until well past the point you arrive at sea level(most likely), and the limited regeneration will limit the heat that can get into the battery.

I've driven 30 miles in the morning during winter, 75% of it on the highway, and STILL had a few dots of limited regeneration.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Rocky_H
If the SOC is below 70% and the traction battery is not to cold or hot (in a temp range to accept max regen), I believe regen would heat the traction battery on a downhill grade. Assuming the battery can accept the maximum regen and the downhill grade were long enough, it might be possible the battery could get to hot to continue to accept full regen? or the SOC could get to high and then regen would be reduced. Unless you charge at the top of the hill to a high SOC or your SOC was near 100% when you started up the hill, the SOC should not normally limit the regen on decent.
 
Ok, i went to a park at the top of a hill in Montreal (Mont Royal).
Spent a couple hours ice skating etc...
When i got back to the car I had quiet a few dots on the regen side. By the time I reached the bottom of the hill, i had even more dots.
The thing is if you start with a cold battery, regen will be insufficient to warm up the battery and your situation will get worse.
Temp was around -15c, didn't help :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life
Do you need Standard Regen Braking

Yes, do not use "Low" regen braking.

For you:

1) Drive normally, minimizing brake use.
2) Be sure to not let the car cold soak at the top of any mountain. If you do, it will take potentially a long time to get regen back (but it depends on the SoC).
3) Do not charge the vehicle above 80% or so at the top of any mountain if you will not be travelling downhill at freeway speeds (70-80mph) (For example, (not in your neck of the woods, but...) it is usually fine to charge to 90% at Mt. Shasta Supercharger, since you typically travel very fast and need little regen after departure, on I-5 or other major roads.)

You need a warm battery, and an SoC below about 80-85% to get decent regen. A long descent, even with a warm battery, will fill the battery and gradually reduce regen. In addition, you may notice extreme reduction of regen if you start with a cooler battery and try to regen on it - even with modest Soc (70-80%). This can result in a real problem - an unpleasant driving experience (riding the brakes) and potential brake pad/rotor damage for a long, steep hill on a cold, high SoC battery.

So, if you have a high SoC (above ~70%) at the top of the hill, and you stop, and it is cold, it is either best to ensure the car does not cool down (don't stop), or aggressively pre-warm the car (reducing SoC and warming the battery) WELL prior to departure. Just be sure you can still make your charging destination.

All of the regen limitations are communicated via the dots on the left hand side (green side) of the line under the speedometer.

I believe regen would heat the traction battery on a downhill grade.

To some extent you're right, but it's kind of complicated. As you know, a cold battery has limited regen capacity, but there is ALSO a memory effect. The more regen you do, the LESS regen it allows - even with minimal change in SoC. For example, you can start with perhaps 70% regen with a cool battery at the top of a short hill, and by the time you are at the bottom, you might only have 40-50% regen (it has nothing to do with the increase in SoC - the increase in regen dots is way too much for it to be caused by an SoC increase).

I believe the mechanism is that regen is a rate-limited process, limited by the rate at which ions can be incorporated into the anode, and after a certain amount of regen, there is a cloud of lithium ions near the battery anode. If these become too concentrated, they will not be re-incorporated into the lattice properly, and lithium plating can result, destroying the battery.

This rate of reincorporation is strongly dependent on temperature, so a cold battery can be quite limited and the regen available gets WORSE, at least transiently, as you do more regen.

This is what is observed. (And this is speculation on my part about the underlying mechanism, but it's not based on exactly nothing: Lithium Ion Battery Anode Aging Mechanisms )

Screen Shot 2020-10-01 at 5.16.39 PM.png


Now, of course, EVENTUALLY as you drive the battery will be warmed up (by the car burning energy to do so or otherwise), but the regen process itself is fairly efficient, and in and of itself may not be enough to warm the battery - especially if it starts out limited, you might only have a couple kW of power (in the form of regen heat losses in the battery) to heat the battery (not including the heating generated by the motors running inefficiently to heat the battery).
 
Last edited:
Just drive the car! Just like an ICE car, it will use more fuel going up hill than going down. UNlike an ICE car, it actually makes more fuel on a long and/or steep downhill. Going up the mountain, you may be concerned that you can't get back because you've used over half a "tank" of electricity. However, going downhill you will initially see very little change in the range to go, then see it actually go UP again.

Note that in cold weather when you use the heater and defroster, you will decrease your range by as much as 1/3. So if you have a LR-AWD, plan for about 200 mi before you have to charge.
 
If your battery cools at the top, it could be worth plugging in a local supercharger as your destination....that way the car will start to heat the battery in anticipation, but I’m not sure how far from the supercharger the car starts to do this
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: duanra
Hi everyone,

I've tried to read other threads but I'm looking for a specific answer.

I'm headed up to New Hampshire later this month and will be driving up quite a few mountains (the infamous Mt. Washington, etc.) and I've been reading that going downhill can help recharge some of the battery?

What settings do you need the car in to obtain this? Do you need Standard Regen Braking, Full Stop, and Standard Steering for this to work?

Any tips and hints would be greatly appreciated! I've owned my AWD M3 for only 4 days now so I'm trying to learn as much as possible!!

Thanks in advance,

Kyle

Use standard regen to get the most power back.
 
Its only my opinion unless you are regularly driving in snow or ice, regen should be set to standard. The manual suggests setting regen to 'low' under low traction conditions so the car doesn't potentially lose traction due to regen. I've done two winters with the 3 in Massachusetts and have never changed it to low except as an experiment. I can tell the computer is fighting to keep the wheels from slipping, but it does such a good job I don't see the point in penalizing the rest of my braking/regeneration.