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Drafty Cabin - Report issues here please!

Discussion in 'Canada' started by mcfadyena, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    Hey Everyone,

    My car is heading in for service (again) to fix a major draft coming from the triangular windows. It was in once already (Mississauga in Toronto) and they told me there was no draft (after having the car for the entire day). I took them for a test drive to show them that there WAS a draft and that it needed to be fixed. Reluctantly, they obliged, but did makeshift work of it. The car was done 2 hours after closing so they didn't want to take it for a test drive to see if it was fixed.

    Short end of the very bad service story (there's a whole lot more that I won't report on) is that it isn't fixed, and is worse. Toronto Lawrence is coming into pick it up soon to keep it for a few days to ensure things are looked after.

    So - I've heard from others that they are having similar problems. Most noticeable (obviously) when it's cold outside. If you're having issues, can you report back here?

    I'm also feeling the draft at the handles and coming through the speaker grill. I'm sure of the draft at the handles, but the speaker grill could simply be coming from the above two problems.

    Any info on what your experiencing will help. They are keeping the car for 3 days to ensure it's all looked after.

    Thanks in advance!
    A.
     
  2. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    Last time I was on a roadtrip in -8C driving 120km/h I decided to feel the A pillar area (after seeing others reporting drafts from that area) and it was very cold. I don't think there was an actual air leak in my car, although I do think it made the cabin feel cool.

    Anyways, I asked service to look at it when my car was in for its annual service. Paperwork said they looked at it so I'm happy.

    My $0.02.
     
  3. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    Thanks for this.

    Hopefully they can look after mine. I drive with one glove jammed into the triangular window area, and the other glove on my left hand to keep cool (and look cool?) ;-)
    But it's definitely a draft coming through and is freezing!
     
  4. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Here's my observations:

    I had cold air around the triangle window area. There was no wind noise which seemed odd, but I took it in to Service and they did some adjustments.

    I still have cold air infiltration.

    I've done some experimenting. I have discovered that on Auto HVAC, Tesla uses Recirculate even in the depths of cold winter. This is a huge no-no as it can lead to window fogging (and it was causing fogging in my case). If I remember to manually select outside air and leave all the other settings on Auto, I never get fogging. Even this morning at -15 F (-26 C) I had not a trace of fogging. But I digress. When I switch to outside air and bump the fan speed up a bit, the cold air infiltration goes away! This leads me to conclude that cold air is somehow getting into the door cavity and is then leaking into the cabin where there are openings in the door panel trim. My suspicion is that the air infiltration is coming in around the gaps around the door handles. I base this assumption on the fact that I get a lot of air blowing out of this door handle area if I turn the HVAC fan up and select outside (not recirculate) air.

    Not sure what the fix is, but at least I have a workaround.
     
  5. brandonmbeard

    brandonmbeard Member

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    Just a quick note:

    If you have your car in Range Mode and it's fairly cold outside, you will feel cold air through the HVAC system at speed. At lower speeds <30mph and stop and start traffic the air will warm up. I noticed this too and realized that it had to do with range mode. I turned off range mode and the heat became way hotter and the fan blew up to 11.
     
  6. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    #6 mcfadyena, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
    Wow. This is great. And the fogging part isn't a digression.

    The last two days, I've pulled out of my garage, fully warmed car, and hit the highway. After 3 minutes, all 4 windows are iced - not fogged, but iced. I have to drive with Defrost on HIGH for the entire journey, which is killing my battery power. Add to that the draft, and it's an awful drive (but in a fantastic car!)

    I'll play around with my settings and see if I can fix things for now. I always leave things on auto (except AC, which always seems to turn on, even in -30 weather, and I leave it on outside air.) And I'll be sure to pass this onto the Tesla Folks who have assured me that they problem will be corrected before I get my car back.
     
  7. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    wrt fogging, I get it on one of my rear windows if I leave the HVAC on auto. It's 100X worse if I set it to recirc, all windows fog up rather quickly especially if I have the whole family with me. The defrost button (blue, not red) works really well at removing the fogginess, and is a great shortcut vs. turning up the fan speed.

    If I manually set the fan speed high, it keeps things from fogging/freezing in the back as well.
     
  8. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    Yeah - I haven't had much choice. I went directly to ice after about 3 minutes. The Blue defrost wouldn't even make a dent in it (it iced with it on blue), and the RED doesn't help. I get that it's really cold outside, but I can't even see through the windows with the ice on it.

    I only have the fan speed on auto. I set the air to outside air, AC off (because it blows super cold air when it auto comes on!). Hopefully some tinkering will get the ice gone. Thanks for the suggestion above!
     
  9. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it's just me, but my car is on Recirculate by default if in full Auto (I use Standard, not Range Mode). I can hear the fan noises change when I manually select outside air. I suspect Tesla is doing this for efficiency reasons (i.e. don't have to heat up -15 F outside air when you can just recirculate the cabin air), but it is a huge problem in the winter for aforementioned reasons. I am willing to give up a bit of range in trade for being able to see out of the car! The problem is I have to remember to do this after getting into the car if I've used the app to pre-heat, because it overrides my settings and puts the HVAC on to full Auto.

    I may also get a bit of fogging on the rear window, but no worse than any other car I've owned and the rear defroster takes care of it pretty quick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Overrride the fan and set it to a higher speed (8 or more) to keep the air moving around. Manually select Outside Air (not recirculate) so that your heater isn't just evaporating water from your floor mats, boots etc. and creating a humidity problem.
     
  10. Forty Creek

    Forty Creek Member

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    During these extreme cold spells, the air around the triangular window is noticeably chilly in my car. Can't say with certainly where the cold air is entering, but as mknox stated it is likely getting through at the handles and door panel. Will try turning off Recirculate to see how things behave.
     
  11. Peter_M

    Peter_M Member

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    One other thing to check for side window fogging: The dashboard vents that blow air on the side windows close completely if you turn them too far towards the window. My passenger side windows were fogging up until I noticed that that vent was closed.

    As for AC being on all the time, I always found in other cars that turning AC on defogged the windows faster, even in very cold weather, presumably because of the dehumidifying it does. I haven't experimented with that in the Model S though.

    Another annoying thing about the climate controls: if you set defog to high (red), it temporarily sets the temperature setpoint to HI. That's OK, but if you then change any of the settings (AC, air routing, fan speed), it takes that as a custom setting and turns off the defog indicator, so it "forgets" your original setpoint, and even hitting "Reset Auto" leaves it at HI.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And as for cold air around the triangular windows, yes I've seen that on a trip in cold weather in range mode. Next time I notice it, I'll try choosing fresh air instead of recirculate. I suspect the positive air pressure would cause the air to flow out instead of in the leaky spots.
     
  12. notailpipe2112

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    I find that I get it on the triangles too. Service looked at it a few months ago, but nothing seems to have changed.

    Regarding fogging, I have found the settings that generally work for my car and I stick with them. Range mode, blue defog mode with a setting of 18 degrees in the cabin. That has worked for me with highway driving in temperatures as low at -20.

    I wish there was a solution for the triangle...or if it is actually not the triangle...whatever it is that so many us seem to have issues with. Maybe it is all in our heads!
     
  13. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    Thanks!
    Do you use range mode often? I drive a lot (over 7500 km since delivery Dec 20, including 8 days away without the car) and I see a very negligible impact with Range Mode on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I really don't think it's in our heads - mine is very noticeable and windy. They have assured me that it will be dealt with, so I'll report back everything that was tried, experimented, and completed.
     
  14. Peter_M

    Peter_M Member

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    I used range mode on the only two long trips I've done so far, so I can't really comment on the range impact. I turn it off while staying in the city because having it on seriously reduces the pack pre-heating.
     
  15. Chris TX

    Chris TX Active Member

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    "Breezy Triangle" has already addressed in a service bulletin that your SC will fix under warranty. No need to re-hash something that Tesla has already addressed. Give your SC a call and they'll know what you're talking about. ;)
     
  16. loganss

    loganss Spaceman

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    I do the exact same thing. I'll be taking my car in for annual service sometime next month and will ask them to fix this. I tried feeling the passenger front side window and it didn't seem as draft. All in all I think the Model S needs more insulation and could've done without that tiny triangle window.
     
  17. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    This thread is because the car is going BACK into service after it wasn't fixed the first time.
    And the SC had no idea what the problem was and how to fix it.

    Not re-hashing something. The triangular window issues was supposed to have been fixed on newer model cars.

     
  18. Zextraterrestrial

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    How about cold air @ the right foot area? anyone?
    when the heater is on it feels cold by the right foot area (drivers side.)
     
  19. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

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    Yup. Me too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    OK - there's something to this. I drove home this evening and had a wicked draft coming at me. I remembered to try what you listed above. I put my hand in front of the draft and took the car of Auto Circulate and manually selected outside air - magically, the draft disappeared. Well, not disappeared, but you could feel the lesson considerably.

    I'll report back to Tesla. They are coming to get the car tomorrow for a full check. And while they are at it, they are looking at water leaks (after a car wash/dry, you open the doors to a very soapy mess inside all 4 doors and frunk). And on my drive in this morning, my back door handle wouldn't go back in. It's still out :-(

    Will let you know how things work out!
     
  20. Zextraterrestrial

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    I also wonder about the air directioning. When I set the climate to the foot setting there is still defrost blowing. I have noticed this when I leave the climate on auto except the foot setting and it is set to 68-69 and outside temps are 40-50. This is a bit uncomfortable since the air blowing is more than the set temp.
    fortunately preheating a car takes care of this completely
     

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