Dragtimes P90D Ludicrous 0-60mph and 0-100mph video

[lolachampcar]

Helle,

I get where you are coming from but I think you will find those differences are but a very small percentage of the power/capability necessary to move from an 11.4 to a 10.9 quarter.

 

[fiksegts]

here is a different run where the P85D got a big jump.....

 

[tezzla]

Looks like it took the P90D around 9 seconds to catch up?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I see a lot of talk about 90% SOC being the ideal point (presumably based on P85D Insane), but I caution about assuming this still applies to P90DL (or even P85DL). The peak current has changed and the P90D also uses a different battery chemistry than the P85D.

The experience of other aspects (like kicking the pedal, optimal tire size/temps, etc) still apply, but the battery assumptions I think still need examining.

 

[darthy001]

Looks like it took the P90D around 9 seconds to catch up?

9-10. That nails it for me. Unless there is a OTA-update for the Ludicrous that ups the performance significantly I am not paying anything for this upgrade.

I would consider it for free though

 

[Johan]

I see a lot of talk about 90% SOC being the ideal point (presumably based on P85D Insane), but I caution about assuming this still applies to P90DL (or even P85DL). The peak current has changed and the P90D also uses a different battery chemistry than the P85D.

The experience of other aspects (like kicking the pedal, optimal tire size/temps, etc) still apply, but the battery assumptions I think still need examining.

Very astute observation. If the 90 performed best at a higher SOC the voltage would be higher for the run. This could give large effects.

 

[sorka]

This sounded wrong so I used the googles to remind me that s = 1/2at^2. That says at a constant acceleration of 1.1G's you would do the 1/4 mile in 8.64 seconds. Ok, so how much constant acceleration would it take to hit the 1/4 in 10.9? ~0.68G's. Of course We know we get 1.1G's at launch, so we can taper more at the end and still hit the time. I think all it would take is a little more acceleration at the beginning.

The pd does not make 1.1 g's at launch.

 

[darthy001]

Very astute observation. If the 90 performed best at a higher SOC the voltage would be higher for the run. This could give large effects.

I believe Pete90D has found 90% to be the sweetspot for acceleration on his P90DL at least. But hopefully he can confirm or debunk that himself Seems like he has been playing around a lot with his new toy since delivery.

 

[Pete90D]

The pd does not make 1.1 g's at launch.

It's close. This is the 2.81s run (3.07 without rollout). Best I got for longitudinal Gs was 1.09

I believe Pete90D has found 90% to be the sweetspot for acceleration on his P90DL at least. But hopefully he can confirm or debunk that himself Seems like he has been playing around a lot with his new toy since delivery.

Best time I got was actually right around 85%.

 

[darthy001]

Best time I got was actually right around 85%.

Even better since starting at 90% wont be a big issue then

 

[Pete90D]

Even better since starting at 90% wont be a big issue then

I think it's better to start around 100 or 95 and bring it down. My opinion on the Max Battery Power option is that it is simply a battery heater and nothing more. This is based on the fact that it will turn off on you when the car gets hot, which would indicate it cares more about temperature than anything. So if I want to launch out of my garage then I'll turn it on, but otherwise launching beforehand will bring it up to the right temp. I think that's why that max power I've recorded was only 2kW higher with it on. I had already launched numerous times so there was no real improvement to make.

 

[darthy001]

I think it's better to start around 100 or 95 and bring it down. My opinion on the Max Battery Power option is that it is simply a battery heater and nothing more. This is based on the fact that it will turn off on you when the car gets hot, which would indicate it cares more about temperature than anything. So if I want to launch out of my garage then I'll turn it on, but otherwise launching beforehand will bring it up to the right temp. I think that's why that max power I've recorded was only 2kW higher with it on. I had already launched numerous times so there was no real improvement to make.

Original quote was about a user supercharging to 100% before driving 18miles to the track and ending up with 90% to play with. I would assume that the battery would be well heated by then!?

 

[shokunin]

here is a different run where the P85D got a big jump.....

Seems like the P90 keeps pulling ahead faster after the 1/4 than the P85D. I can see that the P90D could be 20% faster to 155, but still no where near 10.9 in the quarter.

 

[Pete90D]

Original quote was about a user supercharging to 100% before driving 18miles to the track and ending up with 90% to play with. I would assume that the battery would be well heated by then!?

Potentially. 2nd day I had it, when I was giving people from TMC rides, we played with the setting and it took variable amounts of time to be "Ready". Sometimes it took a couple minutes, but one time it took like 12 miles of driving with a few launches. That tells me that getting the optimal temperature isn't straight forward because if it hit the right temperature it would have been "Ready" quickly and I drove the same route. So maybe launching many times on the way to the track would get it ready.

 

[WarpedOne]

"Ready" will only condition battery temperature.
It will also decrease SOC a bit because it pulls energy from the battery to heat or cool it. Lower SOC == less voltage.

P90D comes with 21" tires. 19" tires have a bit smaller diameter, not by much, only around 2%. But 2% is a difference between 10,9 and 11,1s.
For even stronger acceleration, one can also decrease tire pressure, so they will sit even 'lower' with smaller effective radius and stronger acceleration.

Between 11,4 and 10,9 there is only ~5% difference and every little bit can help.
I'm sure tesla did everything they could when measuring the time. If that means running with tires half empty, so be it.

 

[MuppetOwl]

"Ready" will only condition battery temperature.
It will also decrease SOC a bit because it pulls energy from the battery to heat or cool it. Lower SOC == less voltage.

P90D comes with 21" tires. 19" tires have a bit smaller diameter, not by much, only around 2%. But 2% is a difference between 10,9 and 11,1s.
For even stronger acceleration, one can also decrease tire pressure, so they will sit even 'lower' with smaller effective radius and stronger acceleration.

Between 11,4 and 10,9 there is only ~5% difference and every little bit can help.
I'm sure tesla did everything they could when measuring the time. If that means running with tires half empty, so be it.

Tires with less air and diameter will help at low speed but at high speed increasing diameter is better. Top fuel dragster use that trick to save weight on gears.

"Wrinklewall" slicks are now specifically designed for the special requirements of drag racing, being constructed in such a way as to allow the sidewall to be twisted by the torque applied at launch, softening the initial start and thus reducing the chances of breaking traction. As speed builds, the centrifugal forcegenerated by the tire's rotation "unwraps" the sidewall, returning the energy to the car's acceleration. Additionally, it causes the tires to expand radially, increasing their diameter and effectively creating a taller gear ratio, allowing a higher top speed with the same transmission gearing.

A difference on 11.4 and 10.9 is the difference between 620hp and 750hp so its not as easy to improve 5%.

 

[Matias]

I'm sure tesla did everything they could when measuring the time. If that means running with tires half empty, so be it.

I think car is not street legal, if tires are half empty. If you would remove airbags and safetybelts, that would also increase acceleration..

 

[WarpedOne]

There are things that can be done (smaller rims, lower pressure) and there are things that may not be done.
It should not be hard to understand the difference.

ires with less air and diameter will help at low speed but at high speed increasing diameter is better.

It is a tradeoff- how much time one looses at lower speed versus how much time one losses at higher speeds.
P90D has enough grip, so stronger acceleration at start will help lose less time at lower speeds.
Hawing two motors to output all it has, motor power is not limiting factor at higher speeds (a single motor would be, because it drops in power).
So, sooner the car gets into max power zone, faster the time will be.
Even at 120mph, it will still output max (battery) power, so having smaller tire diamater wont affect it negatively.

Just saying it is worth trying ...

 

[ERP]

I don't believe we can make these standard assumptions about improving the PD drag strip times. I think the software has a lot more control over the cars performance than we understand. I base this on my recent trip to the drag strip with my P85D. I went to Bandimere in Denver Colorado, which is at an altitude of 5,800 ft. The day I was there was warm and had an altitude density of 8,500 ft. The thin air should have been a significant advantage, but my trap speed was actually slower than other top P85D's listed on Drag Times who ran at much lower altitudes. I was at 90% SOC and every thing was set on the car to what is generally considered best for drag racing. I ran 4 nearly identical runs, none of which showed a benefit from the thin air. I've also seen posts from another P85D owner who performed a number of VBox tests, one of which was on a down hill slop. Yet the acceleration times were still the same. I believe the car is programmed to accelerated at a specified rate, not at max power. I know Tesla has stated that these cars perform better a high altitude, and that may be true for range, but I did not see this in my 1/4 miles times.

I ran a 15.999 at 115.34 mph
http://www.dragtimes.com/Tesla--Model-S-Drag-Racing.html

 

[AWDtsla]

I'm seriously doubting that 0.4 seconds better than 11.3 can be done simply with vehicle configuration. The biggest possible weight reduction would be having the car race without a driver. Which would have sounded completely ridiculous if it wasn't a Tesla. But I don't see the car being 20% faster to 155 while only being .5 seconds quicker than insane mode in the quarter. Unless 20% baseline is 85D.

edit - no I'm wrong baseline says "standard Model S Performance". That still leaves P85 vs P85D though.