Dragtimes P90D Ludicrous 0-60mph and 0-100mph video

[stopcrazypp]

Just wondering if you've seen something on this that I may have missed. (I'm not being sarcastic. I easily could have missed something.)

I ask because Musk announced that six month window in July, when he first announced the availability of the upgrade. We've been assuming that the clock only starts ticking once the upgrade was really available, but do we know that for a fact? Has it been confirmed? In theory, that window could close six months from when Musk made the Ludicrous announcement.

The way it is worded, the offer could end in December:
"In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the pack electronics upgrade needed for Ludicrous Mode will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor."
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/three-dog-day

 

[P85DEE]

Just wondering if you've seen something on this that I may have missed. (I'm not being sarcastic. I easily could have missed something.)

I ask because Musk announced that six month window in July, when he first announced the availability of the upgrade. We've been assuming that the clock only starts ticking once the upgrade was really available, but do we know that for a fact? Has it been confirmed? In theory, that window could close six months from when Musk made the Ludicrous announcement.

I can't see how the clock would start before one could even select it. The first day it showed up on the site for sale was on or around 9/27/15.

If if it was announced 7/17 and didn't become available for deposit till 9/27, then that's less than 4 months.

What if it had not become available on their site until 12/17/15? That would leave just 1 month to purchase.

But to your point, even if the window closes 1/17/16, which I don't think that it will, but even if it is slated to close 1/17/16, with this MT article out, there is no way they can stall P90D owners on their 10.9s for another approximately 3 months.

 

[Andyw2100]

The way it is worded, the offer could end in December:
"In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the pack electronics upgrade needed for Ludicrous Mode will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor."
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/three-dog-day

Yes, that's my point.

I was wondering if I had missed something that might have now explicitly stated that the clock only recently started ticking on the six months.

 

[P85DEE]

Yes, but as I said earlier, even in that scenario, that puts you at 1/17/16.

But there is this from the actual order site.

"The retrofit will be made available initially in Fremont to begin in the Q4 time frame. Additional Service Center hubs for the retrofit will be rolled out within 45 days"

We're in Q4 now. 1/17/16 puts us into Q1 of 2016.

With this article out right now and the buzz it's generating, I don't see how, if there truly is a bump presently available for the current P90D ludicrous owners that would get them the 10.9 performance that some of them paid for two months ago, and that some are still paying for, that they sit on it until the middle of January.

That would mean sitting on it across thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years before giving those people the performance they paid for.

I'm thinking worst case scenario, we ought to know before 1/17/16 whether or not Ludicrous gets a bump in the P90D. And we should also know if said bump will be applicable for P85D Ludicrous upgraders because by 1/17/16, there should be some upgraded cars out there.

If if this all does not happen within the time frame I'm looking at here, well then to me that would just about represent a sure sign that nothing else would be forthcoming for the P85D ludicrous upgrader.

*******But scratch any and everything I said about "5 months remaining", and let's just work with the deadline of 1/17/16, or 6 months from the day that Elon first uttered reference to the upgrade, and use that as our deadline for potential Ludicrous upgraders

 

[brianman]

with this MT article out, there is no way they can stall P90D owners on their 10.9s for another approximately 3 months.

You must be new here.

 

[P85DEE]

You must be new here.

I am. :wink:

Look at my join date.

But seriously, I'm looking at the wording here:

" In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the pack electronics upgrade needed for Ludicrous Mode will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor."

Well, they didn't actually start "offering" it until over two months, or around 72 days, after that statement was made. If you can't acquire/obtain it, or even stake a claim to it, well then how is it an "offer"?

But aside from that, this Motor Trend article coming out now, with all of these impressive numbers, if other automotive enthusiasts , owners and soon to be owners of the car, and other magazines, don't start seeing similar results, and soon, then there is going to be more "bad press" over it than a little bit with these Motor Trend numbers now in play and easily referenced.

If the cars don't live up to that yardstick, and soon, then it's going to get ugly, and a lot of respect is going to be lost. Not a good thing when you have competing luxury sedans out there which actually are able to run their numbers.

If Tesla is sitting on something that will produce the goods, well then it would be PR suicide to sit on it for nearly 3 months after this Motor Trend article has been out and referenced.

And IF they elect to take that route, and effectively "stall" the release of a P90D performance bump, in an attempt to "get all of the P85D upgraders out of the way for the 6 month window we promised", well then it's a bright red flag that they don't intend to do anything for P85D Ludicrous upgraders other than the 0.2 seconds improvement in 0-60 and quarter mile times already stated.

There is only one move for them to make. IF they actually have something that will deliver the goods for Ludicrous, well then they are going to have get up off of it, and soon.

This article stays out there for weeks, and those weeks turn into months and nobody else is even coming close to those numbers........look out .

 

[stopcrazypp]

If Tesla is sitting on something that will produce the goods, well then it would be PR suicide to sit on it for nearly 3 months after this Motor Trend article has been out.

I agree with this, but knowing Tesla and with the Model X, autopilot (and Model 3 concept coming up) they might still take a while to release it.

 

[perkiset]

"Policy of deception" may have been too strong a term.

Appreciated. In my experience, companies are rarely smart enough to actually orchestrate such a thing, and keeping that quiet would be even tougher. As has been stated by you and others, the more likely scenario is either screw up or caught with pants down. None of this, of course, excuses the result, but it's easier, IMO, to forgive a (or many, heh) mistake than to understand malicious business.

In this case it's not really the marketing, though, that I have an issue with. It's what customers were told when taking delivery. For whatever reason, engineering couldn't quite meet the expected timeline. Fine, stuff happens. My point is JUST TELL US! Don't let us stew about it, and force us to figure it out on our own. People respect honesty. Say, "We came up a little short, but this will be fixed soon." That's not that difficult.

What I was trying to get at earlier, perhaps ineloquently, is that it kind of doesn't matter if they do say something ... like "AP will be out in several months." Folks like wk will take that and argue the meaning of "several" and how that is ALSO a deception. I'm just spitballing here, but if I were in their shoes, I might also evaluate that it's easier to just pull on a helmet, jump in a fox hole and hide out until the engineers get it sorted.

Cheers Andy.

 

[P85DEE]

I agree with this, but knowing Tesla and with the Model X, autopilot (and Model 3 concept coming up) they might still take a while to release it.

I don't see any other scenario. If they have something, then they are going to have to release it certainly before 1/17/16.

Basically screwing P90D owners , and for months, out of what's rightfully theirs, the performance numbers that are rightfully theirs, what they paid for and what the magazine now says that they have, and for no other reason than to stall prospective P85D upgraders past their 6 month window so that they don't have to explain to them that no additional performance is to be had for them????

No way they're that stupid.

Tesla is going to have to hand over to the P90D Ludicrous folks, what they have in the way of performance benefit, if they have anything, because these embarrassing 11.4s and 11.5s aren't going to cut it for too much longer, when the magazine is getting 10.9.

And when they do that, then Tesla is going to have to state, one way or the other, whether or not what they have will work for P85D Ludicrous upgraders.

You can't claim 10.9 on your site, then have the magazines run 10.9, but have your customers turn right back around and go out there running 11.4 at best. and have it plastered all over YouTube. You can't do that for long. Certainly not from now to nearly February. Not if you want to protect your performance reputation amongst your competitors and sell cars, at $130 grand a pop, you can't.

 

[brianman]

with this MT article out, there is no way they can stall P90D owners on their 10.9s for another approximately 3 months.

You must be new here.

I am. :wink:

Look at my join date.

I did, which is what (I thought) made my comment even funnier.

Anyway, my point was that Tesla Motors has been building a track record of delivering things later than one might expect.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see any other scenario. If they have something, then they are going to have to release it certainly before 1/17/16.

Basically screwing P90D owners , and for months, out of what's rightfully theirs, the performance numbers that are rightfully theirs, what they paid for and what the magazine now says that they have, and for no other reason than to stall prospective P85D upgraders past their 6 month window so that they don't have to explain to them that no additional performance is to be had for them????

No way they're that stupid.

This reminds me of the question someone asked in a different thread:
Do we get an extension on the warranty for autopilot hardware? Until Tesla starts saying "yes" to such things as a matter of habit, I don't expect any delay is impossible on their end. "Stupid" has nothing to do with it.

 

[sillydriver]

I don't see any other scenario. If they have something, then they are going to have to release it certainly before 1/17/16.

Basically screwing P90D owners , and for months, out of what's rightfully theirs, the performance numbers that are rightfully theirs, what they paid for and what the magazine now says that they have, and for no other reason than to stall prospective P85D upgraders past their 6 month window so that they don't have to explain to them that no additional performance is to be had for them????

No way they're that stupid.

Tesla is going to have to hand over to the P90D Ludicrous folks, what they have in the way of performance benefit, if they have anything, because these embarrassing 11.4s and 11.5s aren't going to cut it for too much longer, when the magazine is getting 10.9.

And when they do that, then Tesla is going to have to state, one way or the other, whether or not what they have will work for P85D Ludicrous upgraders.

You can't claim 10.9 on your site, then have the magazines run 10.9, but have your customers turn right back around, going out there and running 11.4 at best. You can't do that for long. Certainly not from now to nearly February.

I agree it makes absolutely no sense on any level to stall the delivery of the 10.9 software for the P90D just to screw people who upgrade from the P85D, particularly since the P85D upgrade was probably offered to ease the hurt feelings of people who bought the new P85D halo car, just to discover there was a faster halo car a few months later. I also agree with the argument that it would be idiotic to give MT a 10.9 car to rub in the face of current P90D owners unless they were going to deliver that same level of performance to those owners soon. So hopefully this will all work out. But the reality is that all we can really do is wait and see.

 

[P85DEE]

I did, which is what (I thought) made my comment even funnier.

Anyway, my point was that Tesla Motors has been building a track record of delivering things later than one might expect.

- - - Updated - - -


This reminds me of the question someone asked in a different thread:
Do we get an extension on the warranty for autopilot hardware? Until Tesla starts saying "yes" to such things as a matter of habit, I don't expect any delay is impossible on their end. "Stupid" has nothing to do with it.

Up until now, I'd agree with you .

But a delay on this matter would be nothing short of stupid.

Follow the chain of "events".

1. Advertise 10.9 in the quarter. Do so for literally months. Since 7/17/15.

2. Nobody, none of your customers, is able to run 10.9 or even close to it.

3. A respected Magazine, with a car that you gave them, is able to run 10.9 in the quarter, but just days before the magazine article comes out, another owner in his own car, falls well short of 10.9. This owner is the second of two owners to get nowhere close to your advertised numbers and the numbers that the car that you provided to the magazine got. Other owners follow them in this futility.

4. ****Tesla has a tweak which will make the car run 10.9 and it was release to the Magazine, but not to the current customers.

5. Tesla sits on the tweak for months, all the while their customers are coming nowhere close to the advertised 10.9 in the quarter, which is what the magazine got months ago. Owners get their asses kicked on the drag strip and produce times half a second at least, away from 10.9. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche Sedans and others, head to head demonstrate graphically, painfully, and repeatedly, that the P90D Ludicrous is not even close to a 10.9 second car.

If that's not stupid, then I don't know what is.



***** denotes presumably has a tweak.

Unless that article is a lie, well then Tesla has something. Something made that car run like that. If it ran like that.

If they don't release it, and soon especially after saying that the car is supposed to produce these numbers anyway, well then that is going to look worse than bad.

 

[perkiset]

Another interesting thought along that line is that a tweak was applied, but it's protomatter (ancient Star Trek ref). It works in a controlled environment but can't, perhaps for safety or car health, be released at this time. Could've been put in the MT car without them even knowing it. Of course, this would copletely destroy my earlier post about there not being a conspiracy or policy of deception LOL.

 

[P85DEE]

I agree it makes absolutely no sense on any level to stall the delivery of the 10.9 software for the P90D just to screw people who upgrade from the P85D, particularly since the P85D upgrade was probably offered to ease the hurt feelings of people who bought the new P85D halo car, just to discover there was a faster halo car a few months later. I also agree with the argument that it would be idiotic to give MT a 10.9 car to rub in the face of current P90D owners unless they were going to deliver that same level of performance to those owners soon. So hopefully this will all work out. But the reality is that all we can really do is wait and see.

Exactly.

If they indeed released something to Motor Trend, well then whatever it was that they released to Motor Trend, they'll have to release to P90D owners. And soon.

The performance discrepancy is just too large at this point for any attempt at justification for withholding it, if it exists.

If the discrepancy continues, well then people are going to ask why that Motor Trend car was the oddball. Many of those people will be customers.

You don't need, nor want, people, rivals, naysayers, observers, asking those kinds of questions, and for literally months. Especially if you are competing with other manufacturers for the performance sports sedan dollar.

I don't see any scenario under which they would be able to sit for long i.e. up till 1/17/16, on any tweak that they may have to get the P90D Ludicrous up to snuff.

Bear in mind, and I didn't bring this up before, but that Motor Trend article, right now it's just on the internet and you sort of have to dig for it in order to find it.

Soon it's going to show up on newsstands in your local supermarket, etc.

 

[sorka]

Another interesting thought along that line is that a tweak was applied, but it's protomatter (ancient Star Trek ref). It works in a controlled environment but can't, perhaps for safety or car health, be released at this time. Could've been put in the MT car without them even knowing it. Of course, this would copletely destroy my earlier post about there not being a conspiracy or policy of deception LOL.

Funny you should say that as I'm litterally listening to track 19 of remastered TWOK soundtrack that Intrada put out a few years ago.

 

[brianman]

Another interesting thought along that line is that a tweak was applied, but it's protomatter (ancient Star Trek ref). It works in a controlled environment but can't, perhaps for safety or car health, be released at this time. Could've been put in the MT car without them even knowing it. Of course, this would copletely destroy my earlier post about there not being a conspiracy or policy of deception LOL.

Like it only works with something attached to the OBD port? Sounds like VW.

 

[perkiset]

Like it only works with something attached to the OBD port? Sounds like VW.

Unfortunately, Exactly.

 

[mdevp]

Can someone post some P90D 1/4miles vids? I only saw one by TeslaDude (which is half sec slower than 10.9)

 

[sorka]

Anyone notice how MT claims under 7 seconds for 0-100 yet the OPs video of the P90DL shows 7.7 seconds. That's an even greater difference than the 1/4 mile if we assume 6.9 seconds or vs 7.7 seconds.

 

[sillydriver]

Anyone notice how MT claims under 7 seconds for 0-100 yet the OPs video of the P90DL shows 7.7 seconds. That's an even greater difference than the 1/4 mile if we assume 6.9 seconds or vs 7.7 seconds.

You bring up something very interesting. 6.9s to 100 - 2.6s to 60 = 4.3s 60 to 100. That is a huge improvement over the high-4 to 5 second 60 to 100 times (not on a downslope, not at high altitude) I've seen for the P90D so far. The fastest competitive German sedans like the RS7 do it in 4.5. So that shows that 1) Tesla's weak performance at passing speeds is fixed, and 2) the MT car really was way off the charts vs. P90Ds out there in the field.