Dragy times for Plaid and LR

[AMGF]

I was thinking long the same lines--that the graph is the electrical power being delivered and not the mechanical power being created. Let me look at the other values and see if they offer some context.

It is possible that Tesla is actually lying about the output. It’s a 5000lbs cat that does the 1/4 in 9.2sec, it takes a lot of power to do that.

Just for fun I looked at estimate Hp from your 1/4mile. Have a look. If true it would explain the extraordinary speed of the Plaid besides the new motor that has flat power from 80mph to 200mph.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

Ok more race videos. How about a TT sheepy race Huracan and 1000RR?

@sheepeyrace on Instagram: "Tesla Plaid vs 1000RR vs sheepey TT Huracan"

20K likes, 369 comments - sheepeyrace on July 30, 2021: "Tesla Plaid vs 1000RR vs sheepey TT Huracan"

www.instagram.com

 

[BigNick]

It is possible that Tesla is actually lying about the output. It’s a 5000lbs cat that does the 1/4 in 9.2sec, it takes a lot of power to do that.

Just for fun I looked at estimate Hp from your 1/4mile. Have a look. If true it would explain the extraordinary speed of the Plaid besides the new motor that has flat power from 80mph to 200mph.

"1020 horsepower" might be understating for insurance purposes?

 

[byeLT4]

Incredible stuff. I am still in disbelief that they have the 18650s performing like this. So far I haven't seen any mention of overheating or a cool down needed, my Ludi S needs it after one run in 'plus' mode. The Plaid seems to lose very little performance at reasonable states of charge, my S loses power as soon as the battery percentage starts dropping, and keeps losing almost linearly it seems. And from what we know the Plaid is doing this with a slightly smaller pack as well...... Dam, someone needs a raise! Haha!

 

[omarsultan]

OK, some more data--usual disclaimers. I decided to look at one wheel as they are all behaving the same way and the extra traces are just adding noise--this is the right rear wheel. Stuff I found interesting:

• The green trace is the signal for Power Limit--it is a 360 kW (~ 480 HP)
• The wheel power spikes past this limit (to ~400kW/536HP before it get reigned in
• Not sure why the Power Limit spikelike that--it does it on both of the 0-60 runs I measured
• The vertical yellow line is where I hit 60 mph - 2.33s in this run (per Draggy) and 2.335s per the car's data

The grey trace is pedal portion and is jus there for reference.

 

[AMGF]

The Plaid is really something else. Just amazing how quick that car is.

 

[Aleks0404]

The Plaid is really something else. Just amazing how quick that car is.

I need mine delivered asap damn those videos don’t make the wait easier

 

[LargeHamCollider]

OK, some more data--usual disclaimers. I decided to look at one wheel as they are all behaving the same way and the extra traces are just adding noise--this is the right rear wheel. Stuff I found interesting:

• The green trace is the signal for Power Limit--it is a 360 kW (~ 480 HP)
• The wheel power spikes past this limit (to ~400kW/536HP before it get reigned in
• Not sure why the Power Limit spikelike that--it does it on both of the 0-60 runs I measured
• The vertical yellow line is where I hit 60 mph - 2.33s in this run (per Draggy) and 2.335s per the car's data

The grey trace is pedal portion and is jus there for reference.
View attachment 690156

So it looks like this is indeed electrical power to the motors not power output by the motors. It’s not surprising to me that the motors are much less efficient than normal at these super high power levels (though they should gain substantial efficiency as rpm increases if I remember the torque/rpm/efficiency contour plots I used to work with). The green power limit line is likely responding to voltage sag, which is a bit odd as that should be a known quantity. 1400hp from the battery is insane.

 

[TorqueMonster]

OK, some more data--usual disclaimers. I decided to look at one wheel as they are all behaving the same way and the extra traces are just adding noise--this is the right rear wheel. Stuff I found interesting:

• The green trace is the signal for Power Limit--it is a 360 kW (~ 480 HP)
• The wheel power spikes past this limit (to ~400kW/536HP before it get reigned in
• Not sure why the Power Limit spikelike that--it does it on both of the 0-60 runs I measured
• The vertical yellow line is where I hit 60 mph - 2.33s in this run (per Draggy) and 2.335s per the car's data

The grey trace is pedal portion and is jus there for reference.
View attachment 690156

this is awesome stuff!

 

[TorqueMonster]

Plaid+ anyone....

 

[TorqueMonster]

So it looks like this is indeed electrical power to the motors not power output by the motors. It’s not surprising to me that the motors are much less efficient than normal at these super high power levels (though they should gain substantial efficiency as rpm increases if I remember the torque/rpm/efficiency contour plots I used to work with). The green power limit line is likely responding to voltage sag, which is a bit odd as that should be a known quantity. 1400hp from the battery is insane.

So i guess for the Roadster (or future Plaids) that there will be key focus on improving the efficiency of the motors to handle the 1400 hp from the batteries. ?

 

[TorqueMonster]

Maybe it shouldn’t be in this thread but anyone have any insight on the insurance for this car might be? I know there’s tons of variables but an estimated ballpark would be nice to know.

I’m itching now…

Funny you mentioned this as I was just doing a bunch of research on insurance. Here is a good link below.

They state that the average insurance costs for a model S Plaid is ~4k/year.

How Much Does Insurance Cost on a Tesla? We Compare Prices Against BMW Luxury Cars and SUVs

You won't spend a cent on gas—and you might pay less on insurance. How much less? We compare Tesla insurance costs against their BMW equivalents.

www.motortrend.com

 

[EndlessPlaid]

It is possible that Tesla is actually lying about the output. It’s a 5000lbs cat that does the 1/4 in 9.2sec, it takes a lot of power to do that.

Just for fun I looked at estimate Hp from your 1/4mile. Have a look. If true it would explain the extraordinary speed of the Plaid besides the new motor that has flat power from 80mph to 200mph.

So it looks like this is indeed electrical power to the motors not power output by the motors. It’s not surprising to me that the motors are much less efficient than normal at these super high power levels (though they should gain substantial efficiency as rpm increases if I remember the torque/rpm/efficiency contour plots I used to work with). The green power limit line is likely responding to voltage sag, which is a bit odd as that should be a known quantity. 1400hp from the battery is insane.

Guys, I hate to steal your thunder, or rain on the parade, but there is no way in Hell that the battery is making 1400hp or something crazy like that.
Put it this way: A lot of people are commenting that the Plaid is accelerating like a 1100hp or 1200hp car. It is. But keep in mind that that it's putting down to the wheels what a 1200 hp ICE would be. Additionally no car like this has ever existed before, where it can hold max power and torque throughout the entire 1/4 mile, with the efficiencies of an EV, so the traditional calculations for 1/4 mile and trap speed to hp will almost certainly be inaccurate.

Just the heat generated alone by this power loss would be insane. This would make this EV substantially LESS efficient than an ICE. Like really bad.

I am strongly leaning towards an equipment error here guys.

 

[TorqueMonster]

Guys, I hate to steal your thunder, or rain on the parade, but there is no way in Hell that the battery is making 1400hp or something crazy like that.
Put it this way: A lot of people are commenting that the Plaid is accelerating like a 1100hp or 1200hp car. It is. But keep in mind that that it's putting down to the wheels what a 1200 hp ICE would be.

Just the heat generated alone by this power loss would be insane. This would make this EV substantially LESS efficient than an ICE. Like really bad.

I am strongly leaning towards an equipment error here guys.

Also, what I do not understand why (even if the batteries could generate 1400 hp),what would be the benefit? I mean it's just a bunch of extra wasted energy (thermal, wear and tear), etc. for no real benefit? the motors can only handle so much power and I do not understand why overdriving them would help any matters. I admit I know nothing of the details of the setup other than I am speaking from what I think is engineering common sense. but I could be missing something here. maybe there is a benefit here that i do not understand as they say the devils are in the details...

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Also, what I do not understand why (even if the batteries could generate 1400 hp),what would be the benefit? I mean it's just a bunch of extra wasted energy (thermal, wear and tear), etc. for no real benefit? the motors can only handle so much power and I do not understand why overdriving them would help any matters. I admit I know nothing of the details of the setup other than I am speaking from what I think is engineering common sense. but I could be missing something here. maybe there is a benefit here that i do not understand as they say the devils are in the details...

Exactly! It's a complete waste of time and energy. Actually guys, that's it right there. If the motors cannot draw the power from battery, the battery will not produce that power. So being that the motors could only generate 1,020 hp, the battery would never produce 1,400 hp. It would be a potential only.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

Exactly! It's a complete waste of time and energy. Actually guys, that's it right there. If the motors cannot draw the power from battery, the battery will not produce that power. So being that the motors could only generate 1,020 hp, the battery would never produce 1,400 hp. It would be a potential only.

I think that Tesla will software unlock more power and/or there is a buffer that is there for future updates.

From how I’m reading @omarsultan data from canbus is that there is a possibility. Also know that Tesla possibly had the 1400hp potential for plaid plus that they nixed last minute BUT had all the hardware for it already designed, engineered, and taken into account. You also need to remember roadster is supposed to come out. The specs are below. From 9.4 to 8.8 I’m sure the ~400 hp buffer is there in the hardware already so that Tesla doesn’t need to redesign anything…just unlock it just like the LRAWD and P unlock for the model 3.

that’s my opinion only based on the data.

 

[omarsultan]

Let me poke around some more and see what else I can find

 

[EndlessPlaid]

I think that Tesla will software unlock more power and/or there is a buffer that is there for future updates.

From how I’m reading @omarsultan data from canbus is that there is a possibility. Also know that Tesla possibly had the 1400hp potential for plaid plus that they nixed last minute BUT had all the hardware for it already designed, engineered, and taken into account. You also need to remember roadster is supposed to come out. The specs are below. From 9.4 to 8.8 I’m sure the ~400 hp buffer is there in the hardware already so that Tesla doesn’t need to redesign anything…just unlock it just like the LRAWD and P unlock for the model 3.

that’s my opinion only based on the data.View attachment 690304

The Roadster will use the 4680s and the structural pack, and so would've the Plaid Plus. Not the 18650s. It makes no sense to bake this much power into a battery that would never be used for the Roadster. Additionally, the battery's potential is almost always shown in the form of potential motor power than can be made. Think the Plaid's current 1,020 hp to the 1,200 hp potential.

 

[TorqueMonster]

The Roadster will use the 4680s and the structural pack, and so would've the Plaid Plus. It makes no sense to bake this much power into a battery that would never be used for the Roadster. Additionally, the battery's potential is almost always shown in the form of potential motor power than can be made. Think the Plaid's current 1,020 hp to the 1,200 hp potential.

ohm's law. V (Voltage) =IR.
P (power) = I^2 R or V^2/R

 

[EndlessPlaid]

ohm's law. V (Voltage) =IR.
P (power) = I^2 R

Exactly. I believe there is some reserve left in the current Plaid's pack. Maybe as much 80 to 130 hp. But not 400 hp. That's just a move that Tesla would never do.