Drive unit or battery problem?

[eelton]

Another data point:

I had the "car may not restart--service is required" error. They said it was my battery coolant heater. After replacement (at my cost--2013 Model S with 43K miles, out of warranty), the error went away for a few weeks but is now back.

I set up another service appointment, but it's 3 weeks away, and it's not possible to speak with a person at Tesla.

I don't trust driving the car with that message popping up constantly, so I have to park it for the 3 weeks.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Check the coolant level... that can make the car throw this code, it may have settled after the install and the sensor is alerting that it could damage the battery, if it gets too hot...

 

[Bill22]

Same to messages just appeared on day and notifications. Model s70 2015. Setting up service, will post results

 

[eelton]

Check the coolant level... that can make the car throw this code, it may have settled after the install and the sensor is alerting that it could damage the battery, if it gets too hot...

Thanks for the suggestion. I looked at what I believe is the coolant reservoir. There is a "normal" and a "max." The level is 1 cm above the max. Although that doesn't seem optimal, I wouldn't expect it to be a major problem (but what do I know).

 

[lager]

Ok got my car service told me it was the battery warmer was faulty . They replaced that and change the battery coolant and was part of the warranty!

Hi
I just had the same problem with my MS70D from 2015. Can you tell me whether your repair of the battery warmer was covered by the 4 year warranty or covered by the extended warranty on the battery?

 

[models4karl]

This happened to my P85+, 2013 yesterday.
1) BMS_u008, Acceleration and top speed reduced, Performance may be restored on next drive.
2) BMS_w172, Vehicle may not restart, Service is required.

I drove the car to the SC and tomorrow I'll try make them have a look. I'll keep you posted.

 

[JamstationP85D]

I just had this (look for my post to see same error codes)..

Removed and replaced high voltage contactors and pyro fuse.
Parts included were..


COVER, FUSE, TOP PANEL(6010488-00-D) 1.0


FIELD KIT PYRO FUSE PACK 1.0 1.5(1089619-00-D) 1.0


FIELD CTR KIT W/O FUSE PACK 1.0 1.5(1084515-00-E) 1.0


ASY, RAPIDMATE PLATE, HVBAT,MDLS(1015753-00-C) 1.0

Thankfully covered under HV battery warranty.

 

[maximizese]

I just had this (look for my post to see same error codes)..

Removed and replaced high voltage contactors and pyro fuse.
Parts included were..


COVER, FUSE, TOP PANEL(6010488-00-D) 1.0


FIELD KIT PYRO FUSE PACK 1.0 1.5(1089619-00-D) 1.0


FIELD CTR KIT W/O FUSE PACK 1.0 1.5(1084515-00-E) 1.0


ASY, RAPIDMATE PLATE, HVBAT,MDLS(1015753-00-C) 1.0

Thankfully covered under HV battery warranty.

Same codes and similar parts covered for our used 2013 S85 under warranty. Happened at 88K miles and they threw in a new 12V battery and HVAC drain hose just to make sure I'd be problem-free for longer.

 

[JamstationP85D]

Same codes and similar parts covered for our used 2013 S85 under warranty. Happened at 88K miles and they threw in a new 12V battery and HVAC drain hose just to make sure I'd be problem-free for longer.

Nice.. My 12v battery still seems to be ok (not complaining)even though its at %16 health when I put it on a tester. I guess the CCA is low and the DC-DC must be working extra to keep it happy. I am ok waiting if they are soon going to replace them with lion batteries instead of agm. 2015 with 50k km.

 

[sonmas]

13 S 85 Base RWD. I’m getting this 2 errors DI_014 and BMS_w172 car has deactivated regeneration. Anyone can help? I checked junction box, no shortage.

 

[rooter]

It makes complete sense that contactors are at fault, for <= early 2016 cars.

They didn't have the inconel springs, which is a superalloy also used by SpaceX. To upgrade the P85D to Lud it was necessary to replace the contactors with inconel ones. The old springs weaken over time due to crystalline vacancies, and the contactors would begin arcing and microwelding, allowing less and less current capacity. If the error 'goes away', it's simply cleared some of the cruft and can carry marginally enough current again, but the problem will be back.

Whatever else they may replace, I suspect the old contactors will always be the root cause. I've put #27 in my notes, thanks JamstationP85D.

 

[howardc64]

I just had this (look for my post to see same error codes)..

Removed and replaced high voltage contactors and pyro fuse.
Parts included were..


COVER, FUSE, TOP PANEL(6010488-00-D) 1.0


FIELD KIT PYRO FUSE PACK 1.0 1.5(1089619-00-D) 1.0


FIELD CTR KIT W/O FUSE PACK 1.0 1.5(1084515-00-E) 1.0


ASY, RAPIDMATE PLATE, HVBAT,MDLS(1015753-00-C) 1.0

Thankfully covered under HV battery warranty.

These PNs show Tesla is at least willing to peel open at least one end of the battery pack to change contactors.

Give us some hope they may consider field level HV battery submodule repairs to reduce pack repair cost. However, contactors are much safer than messing with battery module bus bars internally. I think removing fuse pretty much makes it safe around the contactor area. Anyway, curious the cost if not under warranty. Disassembly not an entirely trivial effort. Probably 4-5 hour book time? + parts, maybe $1500-$2k total? Link to disassembly here T-Rex Camper Build: How to replace the contactors in your Tesla battery pack. - YouTube

It makes complete sense that contactors are at fault, for <= early 2016 cars.

They didn't have the inconel springs, which is a superalloy also used by SpaceX. To upgrade the P85D to Lud it was necessary to replace the contactors with inconel ones. The old springs weaken over time due to crystalline vacancies, and the contactors would begin arcing and microwelding, allowing less and less current capacity. If the error 'goes away', it's simply cleared some of the cruft and can carry marginally enough current again, but the problem will be back.

Whatever else they may replace, I suspect the old contactors will always be the root cause. I've put #27 in my notes, thanks JamstationP85D.

Great insight, would failure rate correlate to contact cycles? which then correlates to drive cycles? My car is 2013 MS with 63k miles but all short trips haha.

Tesla parts catalog shows 2/12-3/16 MS contactor with following PN+description

1486531-00-A CONTACTOR, RAVEN, 4 BI-DIR, MAG, HVBAT, MDLSX

So sounds like at least they are fixing them with superalloy spring contactors.

Yet another microwelding issue besides the inductive motor rotor current flow through the bearings.

 

[JamstationP85D]

These PNs show Tesla is at least willing to peel open at least one end of the battery pack to change contactors.

Give us some hope they may consider field level HV battery submodule repairs to reduce pack repair cost. However, contactors are much safer than messing with battery module bus bars internally. I think removing fuse pretty much makes it safe around the contactor area. Anyway, curious the cost if not under warranty. Disassembly not an entirely trivial effort. Probably 4-5 hour book time? + parts, maybe $1500-$2k total? Link to disassembly here T-Rex Camper Build: How to replace the contactors in your Tesla battery pack. - YouTube



Great insight, would failure rate correlate to contact cycles? which then correlates to drive cycles? My car is 2013 MS with 63k miles but all short trips haha.

Tesla parts catalog shows 2/12-3/16 MS contactor with following PN+description

1486531-00-A CONTACTOR, RAVEN, 4 BI-DIR, MAG, HVBAT, MDLSX

So sounds like at least they are fixing them with superalloy spring contactors.

Yet another microwelding issue besides the inductive motor rotor current flow through the bearings.

My car only has 50k km on it and that was the remedy so it cant be directly correlated to cycles? 95% AC charging.

 

[JamstationP85D]

It makes complete sense that contactors are at fault, for <= early 2016 cars.

They didn't have the inconel springs, which is a superalloy also used by SpaceX. To upgrade the P85D to Lud it was necessary to replace the contactors with inconel ones. The old springs weaken over time due to crystalline vacancies, and the contactors would begin arcing and microwelding, allowing less and less current capacity. If the error 'goes away', it's simply cleared some of the cruft and can carry marginally enough current again, but the problem will be back.

Whatever else they may replace, I suspect the old contactors will always be the root cause. I've put #27 in my notes, thanks JamstationP85D.

I wish I had an opportunity to ask for the Ludi+ pyro fuse while they were replacing the fuse (and then found someone to enable it in the software). I am assuming the fuse they used in the replacement is not the higher amperage fuse?

 

[rooter]

It's unethical to turn on Ludi if it didn't come with the car, and I doubt anyone will do it for you even if you had all the right parts.

 

[JamstationP85D]

It's unethical to turn on Ludi if it didn't come with the car, and I doubt anyone will do it for you even if you had all the right parts.

It was a package that could be added back in the day by Tesla. It consisted of a new upgraded pyro fuse and software upgrade. They dont offer the upgrade anymore.

 

[BigNick]

Isn't the Inconel pyrofuse standard on all performance models since the P100D introduction? Although I seem to recall you could purchase a "downgraded" P100D without the Ludicrous mode enabled at some point.

 

[howardc64]

Does anyone know how frequently contactors are switched while the car is parked? The battery heater and 12V battery recharge both runs off the HV so I'd imagine the contactors need to connect for those.

Also hear a loud click whenever I plug in the charge port. Is that the contactor? But maybe its the lock for the charge port.

Also hear a loud click (followed by other noises... maybe coolant pump?) often when I go near the car parked in the garage without touching the car or touch any of the handles (13 MS85 so no AP or cameras etc). I do have passive entry turned on, leave keys inside the car, and have iPhone paired to Tesla BT. Is this click the contactor?

I'm assuming any scheduled pre-conditioning also must engage the contactors.

Anyhow, wondering if I can/should try to minimize contactor switch given its failure frequency + challenge/cost to replace.

 

[rooter]

Isn't the Inconel pyrofuse standard on all performance models since the P100D introduction? Although I seem to recall you could purchase a "downgraded" P100D without the Ludicrous mode enabled at some point.

The pyro isn't inconel; the two contactors are. Cars built in mid 2016-on have the upgraded components.

Does anyone know how frequently contactors are switched while the car is parked? The battery heater and 12V battery recharge both runs off the HV so I'd imagine the contactors need to connect for those.

Also hear a loud click whenever I plug in the charge port. Is that the contactor? But maybe its the lock for the charge port.

Also hear a loud click (followed by other noises... maybe coolant pump?) often when I go near the car parked in the garage without touching the car or touch any of the handles (13 MS85 so no AP or cameras etc). I do have passive entry turned on, leave keys inside the car, and have iPhone paired to Tesla BT. Is this click the contactor?

I'm assuming any scheduled pre-conditioning also must engage the contactors.

Anyhow, wondering if I can/should try to minimize contactor switch given its failure frequency + challenge/cost to replace.

Just engaging the contactors doesn't harm them, in fact it can help clean them. But when high current is flowing they can be negatively affected, as when charging, but there is nothing you can do about it. Just live your life.

 

[howardc64]

Just engaging the contactors doesn't harm them, in fact it can help clean them. But when high current is flowing they can be negatively affected, as when charging, but there is nothing you can do about it. Just live your life.

Ok thx, very helpful. I guess supercharging is the highest current flow, followed by launches. not much of either in my case. Do have a few steep hill high regens nearby. But as you say, just go on living haha. Just researching DIY/nonSC battery+DU repair options with 8 year powertrain warranty ending soon.