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Drive unit replacement - getting better?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by mspohr, Aug 14, 2015.

?

My drive unit was replaced and my car was produced:

  1. 2012

    27 vote(s)
    16.1%
  2. 1Q 2013

    26 vote(s)
    15.5%
  3. 2Q 2013

    17 vote(s)
    10.1%
  4. 3Q 2013

    25 vote(s)
    14.9%
  5. 4Q 2013

    12 vote(s)
    7.1%
  6. 1Q 2014

    14 vote(s)
    8.3%
  7. 2Q 2014

    6 vote(s)
    3.6%
  8. 3Q 2014

    12 vote(s)
    7.1%
  9. 4Q 2014

    17 vote(s)
    10.1%
  10. 1Q 2015

    3 vote(s)
    1.8%
  11. 2Q 2015

    4 vote(s)
    2.4%
  12. 3Q 2015

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  13. 4Q 2015

    4 vote(s)
    2.4%
  1. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    I considered adding an option for "I haven't had any failure (yet)" but the way polls work here is that you can only vote once and if you enter "no problems" today and start having problems tomorrow there's no way to change your response. Same thing for "number of replacements"... if you have only had one but have it replaced again in the future, there's no way to change the number.
    I suppose that we could use the number of people who have viewed this poll to be a rough approximation for a denominator since I assume that if someone viewed the poll and had a replacement, they would respond and others would just read and move on.
    Does anybody know if there is any way to determine the number of unique users who have viewed the poll?
     
  2. DavidB

    DavidB 2010 Roadster Sport || 2013 S85 || 2017 X100D

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    #42 DavidB, Sep 10, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
    With 68,000 miles on my Aug 2013 S85, I'm just now getting my first drive motor replaced--I'm getting my car back from the shop tomorrow.
     
  3. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Not if brand new drive units with P revision are developing problems after 2 weeks, as another poster just wrote...

    - - - Updated - - -

    If we don't know the occurrence rate, then we clearly cannot extrapolate that the number of replacements since Q1 2014 have been small. My car was built in Q3 2013 and I've gone through 3 DU replacements. My DUs have been manufactured or remanufactured in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So it's not a problem specific to a particular quarter. It's a problem specific to the DU design.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not if they are making noises after 2 weeks. LOL!


    Which of your ICE vehicles got noisier a few weeks after you bought it?
     
  4. qwk

    qwk P130DL

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
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    If you think that induction motors are going to be silent, you need to go drive some Roadsters, Volts, and AC propulsion vehicles. Some Model S DU's definitely exhibit excessive noise, and it's an issue, but you are blowing it out of proportion. He also stated that the new DU is starting to make some noise, which doesn't sound excessive to me. Maybe he will chime in and clarify.
     
  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    My S was built in Q4 2013, has 31K miles, no DU problems.
    It is impossible to estimate the percentage of S DU replacements based on posts on TMC. People with problems often post about them. People without problems rarely post "no problem with my car".
     
  6. KidDoc

    KidDoc Supporting Member

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    I don't think anyone expects the DU to be silent. But this is a new onset noise that is a clear change from prior behavior which is indicative of a mechanical failure. Clearly Tesla agrees and that is why they are replacing them with no fuss. I anticipate keeping my car as long as possible so the concern I have, which has been echoed many times, is how much is something like this going to cost once it is out of warranty? How often is it going to happen? How long can you drive with a milling noise before the DU fails?

    It is a major issue for Tesla longevity that needs to be addressed (IMO).
     
  7. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    Exactly. It's very hard to be sure what percentage of DU's are having noise problems. I can tell you that the complete failure rate is very low. The one SC I spoke with has only had one car with a complete DU failure so far. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that apart from the "clunk"(some gear backlash is normal), these other noises will probably not lead to complete failure of the DU for a very long time. Only time will tell how this plays out.
     
  8. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Regardless, electric motors should not get noisier over time. Nobody is expecting them to be silent, but they should not get noisier just like your ICE engine doesn't generally get noisier unless there is something wrong.
     
  9. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    #49 ecarfan, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
    And according to Tesla, sometimes a noise people hear that sounds like it is related to the DU is actually from something external and adjacent to it that is loose and vibrating.
    If you hear a noise that sounds like it is coming from the DU, even when it varies with motor RPMs, it would be an erroneous assumption to conclude that it must be coming from the DU.
    There is no question that some DUs have been replaced, and a few owners have had multiple replacements. That does not mean that a large percentage of all cars have had their DUs replaced. No one outside of Tesla knows the actual number or has even the vaguest idea of what it is.
     
  10. Only Trons

    Only Trons Supporting Member

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    Jun 22, 2013
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    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    MS delivered Apr 2013. 28K miles. Original DU. No noise or clunk yet.
     
  11. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    But they do get noisier. The question is how much noise is acceptable. Like I said, go drive some other cars, and you will get a feel for what to compare to. It's impossible to know just how loud some of these TMC posters DU's are. Another thing to consider is some people a pickier than others as far as to what is acceptable. I have noticed a trend from posts here which indicate that if the original DU has been replaced, there seems to be no end to the DU replacements thereafter. In other words, the likelyhood that one DU replacement fixes the noise/clunk is very slim.
     
  12. vitaliy

    vitaliy Member

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    Jun 17, 2015
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    Location:
    Tysons, VA
    I drove Model S once (70D) and I wasn't able to hear anything from DU, but environment was very loud (downtown). My question to Model S owners (especially 85D & 90D) is if Model S motors are louder than a high end luxury ICE car? Maybe during acceleration, regenerative breaking or high speed cruse?

    Thanks
     
  13. hpham007

    hpham007 Banned

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    Nissan Leaf motors do not get noisier nor do they require periodic replacements if at all..
     
  14. Forty Creek

    Forty Creek Member

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    #54 Forty Creek, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
    There is little question about how much noise is acceptable in my experience. Tesla service recorded the sound from my DU and measured it against a benchmark threshold. It was not acceptable by their standard. Oh, and I'm waiting for my third DU and I do not believe it is simply because I'm more picky than others.
     
  15. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    Nissan doesn't use induction motors.
     
  16. hpham007

    hpham007 Banned

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    Nissan uses a variation of the induction motor that has permanent magnets.
     
  17. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    Lol. The Leaf motor is NOT an induction motor. Induction motors don't use permanent magnets.
     
  18. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    It's obviously a design flaw. Pretty important component to have a flaw too. Sucks for Tesla. but it's gotta be costing them a ridiculous amount of money swapping these all and having multiple iterations of manufactured new drive unit versions all continuing to fail over and over again.
     
  19. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    Don't worry, they're busy developing the charging snake. Once they're done, they'll fix the drivetrain issues ;)
     
  20. qwk

    qwk P130DL

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    I really don't think it's a design flaw, just typical Tesla. Instead of buying quality bearings, and hiring quality employees, they skimp out on the important things. Just look at the rear camber issue. Instead of just developing adjustable links, they messed around with sloppy bolts. A 3rd grader would know that fix wasn't going to work. Same with the UMC, instead of just developing a quality UMC after the melting problems, they patch the existing inadequate unit, and then cripple the cars charging abilities. Just imagine how much that has cost them. I myself am on UMC number 8. I and many owners would be willing to pay $2-3k for a quality unit that lasts the life of the car, instead of the current abomination. I know Elon is very smart, but whoever he put in charge of these decisions isn't, and here we are. The sad thing is, I really don't see this getting better.
     

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