Drive unit replacement - getting better?

[mspohr]

Why isn't there an option for each year of those of us without any failures?

So we can see percentage wise how much of an improvement was made.

I considered adding an option for "I haven't had any failure (yet)" but the way polls work here is that you can only vote once and if you enter "no problems" today and start having problems tomorrow there's no way to change your response. Same thing for "number of replacements"... if you have only had one but have it replaced again in the future, there's no way to change the number.
I suppose that we could use the number of people who have viewed this poll to be a rough approximation for a denominator since I assume that if someone viewed the poll and had a replacement, they would respond and others would just read and move on.
Does anybody know if there is any way to determine the number of unique users who have viewed the poll?

 

[DavidB]

With 68,000 miles on my Aug 2013 S85, I'm just now getting my first drive motor replaced--I'm getting my car back from the shop tomorrow.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

You forgot option 4-sloppy remanufacturing process. Tesla knows exactly the cause of the issues, and for the most part they have been taken care of in new drive units.

Not if brand new drive units with P revision are developing problems after 2 weeks, as another poster just wrote...

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Unfortunately, we don't know what the occurrence rate is since we have only 48 people reporting here that they have had at least one replacement. The denominator could be "number of people who have seen this poll and responded".
Most of the replacements are in cars manufactured in 4Q 2013 and 1Q 2014 so there was probably something going on then that seems to have been corrected since the number of replacements since then has been small in spite of the increase in production.
The multiple drive replacements are a bit concerning but since these are usually remanufactured units, it would seem to indicate that there is some defect in the original units which is not being corrected by the remanufacturing process.

If we don't know the occurrence rate, then we clearly cannot extrapolate that the number of replacements since Q1 2014 have been small. My car was built in Q3 2013 and I've gone through 3 DU replacements. My DUs have been manufactured or remanufactured in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So it's not a problem specific to a particular quarter. It's a problem specific to the DU design.

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The new drive units are definately not perfect, but they are much better than the early ones.

Not if they are making noises after 2 weeks. LOL!

If one wants a completely silent drive unit, Tesla is probably not going to be the car to go with.

Which of your ICE vehicles got noisier a few weeks after you bought it?

 

[qwk]

Not if brand new drive units with P revision are developing problems after 2 weeks, as another poster just wrote...

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If we don't know the occurrence rate, then we clearly cannot extrapolate that the number of replacements since Q1 2014 have been small. My car was built in Q3 2013 and I've gone through 3 DU replacements. My DUs have been manufactured or remanufactured in 2013, 2014, and 2015. So it's not a problem specific to a particular quarter. It's a problem specific to the DU design.

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Not if they are making noises after 2 weeks. LOL!



Which of your ICE vehicles got noisier a few weeks after you bought it?

If you think that induction motors are going to be silent, you need to go drive some Roadsters, Volts, and AC propulsion vehicles. Some Model S DU's definitely exhibit excessive noise, and it's an issue, but you are blowing it out of proportion. He also stated that the new DU is starting to make some noise, which doesn't sound excessive to me. Maybe he will chime in and clarify.

 

[ecarfan]

My S was built in Q4 2013, has 31K miles, no DU problems.
It is impossible to estimate the percentage of S DU replacements based on posts on TMC. People with problems often post about them. People without problems rarely post "no problem with my car".

 

[KidDoc]

If you think that induction motors are going to be silent, you need to go drive some Roadsters, Volts, and AC propulsion vehicles. Some Model S DU's definitely exhibit excessive noise, and it's an issue, but you are blowing it out of proportion. He also stated that the new DU is starting to make some noise, which doesn't sound excessive to me. Maybe he will chime in and clarify.

I don't think anyone expects the DU to be silent. But this is a new onset noise that is a clear change from prior behavior which is indicative of a mechanical failure. Clearly Tesla agrees and that is why they are replacing them with no fuss. I anticipate keeping my car as long as possible so the concern I have, which has been echoed many times, is how much is something like this going to cost once it is out of warranty? How often is it going to happen? How long can you drive with a milling noise before the DU fails?

It is a major issue for Tesla longevity that needs to be addressed (IMO).

 

[qwk]

My S was built in Q4 2013, has 31K miles, no DU problems.
It is impossible to estimate the percentage of S DU replacements based on posts on TMC. People with problems often post about them. People without problems rarely post "no problem with my car".

Exactly. It's very hard to be sure what percentage of DU's are having noise problems. I can tell you that the complete failure rate is very low. The one SC I spoke with has only had one car with a complete DU failure so far. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that apart from the "clunk"(some gear backlash is normal), these other noises will probably not lead to complete failure of the DU for a very long time. Only time will tell how this plays out.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

If you think that induction motors are going to be silent, you need to go drive some Roadsters, Volts, and AC propulsion vehicles. Some Model S DU's definitely exhibit excessive noise, and it's an issue, but you are blowing it out of proportion. He also stated that the new DU is starting to make some noise, which doesn't sound excessive to me. Maybe he will chime in and clarify.

Regardless, electric motors should not get noisier over time. Nobody is expecting them to be silent, but they should not get noisier just like your ICE engine doesn't generally get noisier unless there is something wrong.

 

[ecarfan]

And according to Tesla, sometimes a noise people hear that sounds like it is related to the DU is actually from something external and adjacent to it that is loose and vibrating.
If you hear a noise that sounds like it is coming from the DU, even when it varies with motor RPMs, it would be an erroneous assumption to conclude that it must be coming from the DU.
There is no question that some DUs have been replaced, and a few owners have had multiple replacements. That does not mean that a large percentage of all cars have had their DUs replaced. No one outside of Tesla knows the actual number or has even the vaguest idea of what it is.

 

[Only Trons]

MS delivered Apr 2013. 28K miles. Original DU. No noise or clunk yet.

 

[qwk]

Regardless, electric motors should not get noisier over time. Nobody is expecting them to be silent, but they should not get noisier just like your ICE engine doesn't generally get noisier unless there is something wrong.

But they do get noisier. The question is how much noise is acceptable. Like I said, go drive some other cars, and you will get a feel for what to compare to. It's impossible to know just how loud some of these TMC posters DU's are. Another thing to consider is some people a pickier than others as far as to what is acceptable. I have noticed a trend from posts here which indicate that if the original DU has been replaced, there seems to be no end to the DU replacements thereafter. In other words, the likelyhood that one DU replacement fixes the noise/clunk is very slim.

 

[vitaliy]

I drove Model S once (70D) and I wasn't able to hear anything from DU, but environment was very loud (downtown). My question to Model S owners (especially 85D & 90D) is if Model S motors are louder than a high end luxury ICE car? Maybe during acceleration, regenerative breaking or high speed cruse?

Thanks

 

[hpham007]

But they do get noisier.

Nissan Leaf motors do not get noisier nor do they require periodic replacements if at all..

 

[Forty Creek]

But they do get noisier. The question is how much noise is acceptable. Like I said, go drive some other cars, and you will get a feel for what to compare to. It's impossible to know just how loud some of these TMC posters DU's are. Another thing to consider is some people a pickier than others as far as to what is acceptable. I have noticed a trend from posts here which indicate that if the original DU has been replaced, there seems to be no end to the DU replacements thereafter. In other words, the likelyhood that one DU replacement fixes the noise/clunk is very slim.

There is little question about how much noise is acceptable in my experience. Tesla service recorded the sound from my DU and measured it against a benchmark threshold. It was not acceptable by their standard. Oh, and I'm waiting for my third DU and I do not believe it is simply because I'm more picky than others.

 

[qwk]

Nissan Leaf motors do not get noisier nor do they require periodic replacements if at all..

Nissan doesn't use induction motors.

 

[hpham007]

Nissan doesn't use induction motors.

Nissan uses a variation of the induction motor that has permanent magnets.

 

[qwk]

Nissan uses a variation of the induction motor that has permanent magnets.

Lol. The Leaf motor is NOT an induction motor. Induction motors don't use permanent magnets.

 

[yobigd20]

It's obviously a design flaw. Pretty important component to have a flaw too. Sucks for Tesla. but it's gotta be costing them a ridiculous amount of money swapping these all and having multiple iterations of manufactured new drive unit versions all continuing to fail over and over again.

 

[Max*]

It's obviously a design flaw. Pretty important component to have a flaw too. Sucks for Tesla. but it's gotta be costing them a ridiculous amount of money swapping these all and having multiple iterations of manufactured new drive unit versions all continuing to fail over and over again.

Don't worry, they're busy developing the charging snake. Once they're done, they'll fix the drivetrain issues

 

[qwk]

I really don't think it's a design flaw, just typical Tesla. Instead of buying quality bearings, and hiring quality employees, they skimp out on the important things. Just look at the rear camber issue. Instead of just developing adjustable links, they messed around with sloppy bolts. A 3rd grader would know that fix wasn't going to work. Same with the UMC, instead of just developing a quality UMC after the melting problems, they patch the existing inadequate unit, and then cripple the cars charging abilities. Just imagine how much that has cost them. I myself am on UMC number 8. I and many owners would be willing to pay $2-3k for a quality unit that lasts the life of the car, instead of the current abomination. I know Elon is very smart, but whoever he put in charge of these decisions isn't, and here we are. The sad thing is, I really don't see this getting better.