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Drive unit replacement - getting better?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by mspohr, Aug 14, 2015.

?

My drive unit was replaced and my car was produced:

  1. 2012

    27 vote(s)
    16.1%
  2. 1Q 2013

    26 vote(s)
    15.5%
  3. 2Q 2013

    17 vote(s)
    10.1%
  4. 3Q 2013

    25 vote(s)
    14.9%
  5. 4Q 2013

    12 vote(s)
    7.1%
  6. 1Q 2014

    14 vote(s)
    8.3%
  7. 2Q 2014

    6 vote(s)
    3.6%
  8. 3Q 2014

    12 vote(s)
    7.1%
  9. 4Q 2014

    17 vote(s)
    10.1%
  10. 1Q 2015

    3 vote(s)
    1.8%
  11. 2Q 2015

    4 vote(s)
    2.4%
  12. 3Q 2015

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  13. 4Q 2015

    4 vote(s)
    2.4%
  1. vgrinshpun

    vgrinshpun Supporting Member

    Joined:
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    PA
    While we agree on the solid science behind CR data, I would like to caution against calling DU problems insignificant, leave along non-existent. Let's try not to exaggerate. The data clearly show that there is small but statistically significant quantity of cars that have experienced drive unit problems (my P85+ included), however the overall rate of these problems is to small to either present financial problem for the Company, or warrant recommending against buying the car - after all Model S is CR overall top pick second year running.
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,091
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    #102 cwerdna, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
    No they do not "die prematurely". I'd wager there have been FAR fewer Leaf packs replaced for failure of either the modules or anything internal to the pack than their have been for Model S pack replacements. The former are almost unheard of. (And, no I'm not talking about for degradation. See below.)

    That said, they have DEGRADED much more than we were led to believe via statements in videos and printed materials. They didn't DIE. They still work. The car still runs fine. They just happen to have much more capacity loss than we expected and significantly reduced range autonomy.

    And yes, they did sorta care, after noise from Phoenicians w/badly degraded batteries in the local news there, Tony Williams' range test and later we found out, there was apparently a class action lawsuit going on, in parallel. Unfortunately, the Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 2012 LEAF - My Nissan Leaf Forum will not help many folks. They did come out with a "lizard" battery (Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement - My Nissan Leaf Forum) but we have no idea how much more heat resistant it is.

    And '16 Leaf SV and SL will have an 8 year/100K capacity battery warranty, instead of 5 years/60K.
     
  3. rxlawdude

    rxlawdude Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1,960
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Point taken. Though it makes the car almost useless for its designed purpose. And there were indeed failures in the desert.
     
  4. bwa

    bwa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Aptos, Ca
    #104 bwa, Dec 14, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
    These EV batteries can't take high heat, and Tesla has a/c (and heater) for their EV battery and Leaf does not. Simple design choice.


    The "axial load on radial ball bearings" comment confirms someone else thinks the same thing I thought when I looked at my first Tesla sled: the motor is rotational, but the car and axle flex in all sorts of planes and angles. I know, because that's what happens to me and my car whenever I drive Highway 17 Santa Cruz -> San Jose in the morning, and heck a little in rush hour coming home too via Hwy 17, Summit Rd & Old San Jose-Soquel Road.

    The transfer from motor to axle may need some real work by Tesla. I will be interested to see:

    * Gear change, for higher half of speed range
    * Transmission, to handle the gear shift without shaking

    and

    * Some sort of mechanical flexibility

    Maybe a different ball bearing design?

    It occurs to me they may be testing lots of designs.

    Another design I thought of was have no separate motor from the axles: axle would be shaft & body would be housing. Only the axle bearings would exist; no extra motor bearings. This might cause its own problems but it's an idea.
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    Messages:
    3,091
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Source?
     
  6. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    4,207
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    About Us | Consumers Union

    CU and CR are both basically CR but it does confuse some. I'm not the biggest fan of CR/CU but I know enough about them to give you that heads up.
     
  7. BozieBeMe2

    BozieBeMe2 May I have this dance?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    Indy, Indiana, USA
    To help balance out the nature of the poll, which I understand as' Motor Failures", I believe you should include ALL cars.
    Otherwise all you will get are all failures based on quarters and years?
    This poll will help drill down to those drive unit failures, from a certain time frame for sure.
    To know the percentages of TOTAL failures you will need a total overall count,
    Good versus bad.
    To not include all units, this information isn't about Tesla improving on failures, just the probably time frame those motors were being built.
     
  8. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    8,368
    Location:
    California
    The limits of this site mean that you will never get 100% on any question. The purpose of this survey was to see if the relative number of replacements was changing over time. I think it's clear that the high number of replacements for cars made in 2013 has declined to next to nothing for 2015. I conclude that the problem has veen corrected.
     
  9. Ugliest1

    Ugliest1 S85: "Sparky"

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Victoria BC Canada
    I just had my drive unit replaced at 55,000km (Dec 2013 build). For the past several months there has been a small "thunk" when shifting into regen. There has also been a kind of more-than-faint-but-less-than-loud electric whine (I don't know if that's the "milling noise" that people talk about). No noticeable change in performance that I could detect. I checked with Service in November 2015 and they said the unit was operating within parameters, but we set up an appointment for earlier this week to check it more thoroughly. From my perspective it didn't seem to affect anything other than, well, a thunk and whining.

    At the appointment this week Service replaced the drive unit and will ship my old one to Fremont for examination. The new one... wow. Silent. It's a revision Q if that means anything and if I'm reading the part # correctly: ASY,P-TRAIN,MEC,COMPLETE,RC (1002633-00-Q)
     
  10. Rama

    Rama Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Irvine
    I just had my front drive unit replace (70D) yesterday. I see that I'm the only one who's car was built 2Q 2015 or later. I wonder if the poll has gone dead or is the problem pretty rare nowadays? I will note that my 70D was one of the very first off the line, no excuse of course. The unit started making some odd sounds under heavy acceleration. I had less than 10k miles on it.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
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    Location:
    California
    Haven't heard of front drive replacement. Hopefully this is not the start of a trend.
     
  12. Rama

    Rama Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Irvine
    Neither had the Tesla tech. When I took him for a test drive so he could hear the sound his reaction was "never heard that before".
     
  13. RiC0MD

    RiC0MD Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    MN
    Q2 2015, 85D, rear motor replaced before 3k, buzzing noise at 70-75mph, tech figured it was a bad bearing, but they replaced the entire unit just to be safe.
     
  14. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,920
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    Not dead yet. My 5th drive unit is scheduled to be put in in a few weeks. Same crap milling noise all over again.
     
  15. Arcam

    Arcam Living the Tesla Nightmare

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Rochdale, UK
    Brand new demo vehicle (85D) with dreadful whine from the DU(s) at 45 - 50 MPH, I took the vehicle on an extended demo run and picked it up with 18 miles on the clock (drive was near silent) and returned it with nearly 300 miles on it the next day with the whine, dealer confirmed it is an issue but would not tell me if the DU will be replaced as it is still with service and it is not my vehicle.
     
  16. qwk

    qwk P130DL

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,023
    How long do your DU's go until the milling noise starts? Do you also get the drone at highway speeds?
     
  17. Thumper

    Thumper Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
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    1,039
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    VIN 23** produced late Q4 2012, 30K miles. No problems at all thus far.
     
  18. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
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    5,920
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    usually about 15k before the milling noise starts. this last one started at about 7k miles despite it being a brand new unit (not remanufactured). i usually just keep driving on it until it gets really loud and annoying. if went in to get it swapped as soon as I hear the milling noise starting i'd probably be on my 8th or 9th DU by now lol

    i dont think i have experienced any highway drone hum.
     
  19. Thomas Allen

    Thomas Allen Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Orlando
    It appears that everyone's replacement has been at no charge. Does anyone know what the out of warranty replacement cost would be?
     
  20. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    7,152
    Location:
    Merced, CA
    P85DL with 20K miles and original drive units. Not strange noises except the paddle like sound that started last month that was fixed by replacing/adjusting the front motor mounts so not a DU issue directly.
     

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