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Driver Monitoring in 10.5
- Thread starter Ruffles
- Start date
Yes, that is how it should work. My problem is that it is alerting without any phone in sight and not touching the screen or anything else. I can have laser focus on the road and it still alerts.
If you can mess around with your phone with your LEFT hand, you can get away with it. What really chaps my butt is that I can no longer mess around with the in car NAV and do any real SC searches while on AP and driving. It fails out in about 5=10 seconds and throws a total fit. Tesla really needs to get some better voice commands up and running and some better UI/UX and functions to be able to work around this and let drivers use the in car nav a bit more without failing out of FSD. but, maybe that is later.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
According to a YouTuber - you can do 1-7 seconds i.e. pay attention for one second and look away for seven.
Personally I consider this too lax ....
Personally I consider this too lax ....
I'm 6' and yeah it feels like they changed some setting in the second week of 10.5..
I've not had any issues until late last week/this weekend. It seems to not even like it when I look at traffic on either side for too long it bend forward to see better.
Might be trying to detect where you're looking by how much hair it can see... would explain Elon's hair cut.
I really wish they could just give us a plug in USB camera to monitor for the beta while they work out a permanent solution..
Guess those model X and S owners are getting spared for now, they don't have the cabin camera, right?
I've not had any issues until late last week/this weekend. It seems to not even like it when I look at traffic on either side for too long it bend forward to see better.
Might be trying to detect where you're looking by how much hair it can see... would explain Elon's hair cut.
I really wish they could just give us a plug in USB camera to monitor for the beta while they work out a permanent solution..
Guess those model X and S owners are getting spared for now, they don't have the cabin camera, right?
The racism aspect is the really troubling aspect of the way Tesla has implemented Beta Driver Monitoring.
It's in beta, but there is no way beta tester to validate the system.
There is no recorded video clip to see what it was thinking
There is no way to have an actual conversation the FSD Beta. You can write them an email if you think there is an issue, but they won't respond.
Like any neural network system its going to work best for what the training data mostly consist of so people who's features differ will be out of luck.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
This is actually a known problem in AI. Machine learning systems reflect the data they are trained on. If there is bias in the training data there will be bias in performance. So I doubt there was deliberate racism. Instead, it appears there was not enough of an effort to collect a representative set of training data. I'm not letting Tesla off the hook here. As leaders in AI development, they should be very aware of these bias' and should be actively pursuing representative training data.
Let's get off the racism kick as there is NO evidence of that. I started the thread and I'm a white male. If anything, the issues have to do with lighting or being bald or wearing glasses or something like that. For now, its promising that 10.6 has been paused while 10.6.1 is readied. I hope driver monitoring is one of the annoying issues Elon was talking about.
PDX-Y
Member
Whoa whoa whoa. No, stop. It's a bug. This is beta software.
I'm as woke a white guy as you're going to find, but I write bugs in software every day, for a living. If I accidentally push a poorly-audited training set (to be clear: I don't do ML work) and the results show racially-determined behavior, that doesn't make me a racist. It means I made a mistake I should fix.
I think he/she/they using the term racism was just an incorrectly applied use of the term.. but in AI there is indeed an inaccuracy bias towards what is lets call it LIGHT skinned (The AI system sees this as surface color and texture) overwhelming majority of the data sets sample size used for the AI training and machine learning and a NON light skinned set of sample data. Its not that it recognizes NON light skinned subject and alters function or algorithm outcomes based on that, but rather the AI ability to make the same threshold of analysis and interpretation of face, expression, etc., has been overwhelmingly influenced by a predominance of mostly one color in the entrainment.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The term is correctly applied - but applies to the s/w, not necessarily the engineers. Won't be surprised if many of them are East Asian themselves.
Just not representative data set. Infact to make the NN non-racist you need to over-sample minorities. Tesla NN engineers would/should know that.
None of us know anything about the data set used to train the camera. Period. I don't want my thread going down this hole.
Let's try to find commonality in the situations where this has been a problem. In my case, both of my strikes occurred like this:
- Happened in the dark (early morning and at night)
- Happened in rainy weather
- I wear glasses
- I'm tall (6'2)
- Happened on freeway/highway/straight roads. Not in the city streets
- Happened with light traffic. I was traveling around 50 mph
- No one else in the car
- Phone in pocket
I'm tall, too. I also wear glasses.
And there are numerous reports about the system throwing up more "Pay Attention" cabin camera induced alerts for tall drivers. I get them constantly. To the point that I have to not use FSD in order to prevent strikes.
Putting on sun glasses does help a lot. But when I'm not wearing them, none of the other conditions (light, dark, rainy, etc.) matter... I get constant dings if I'm just wearing my normal specs.
I should also note that I never take my eyes off the road when AP/FSD is in use. Ever. To the point that I have to ask my wife what the screen said when I get an aural alert.
And there are numerous reports about the system throwing up more "Pay Attention" cabin camera induced alerts for tall drivers. I get them constantly. To the point that I have to not use FSD in order to prevent strikes.
Putting on sun glasses does help a lot. But when I'm not wearing them, none of the other conditions (light, dark, rainy, etc.) matter... I get constant dings if I'm just wearing my normal specs.
I should also note that I never take my eyes off the road when AP/FSD is in use. Ever. To the point that I have to ask my wife what the screen said when I get an aural alert.
Seat position might matter as well if driver height is important. I received a strikeout in our Y where I've set the seat to the highest position while very few "Pay attention" in our 3 where the seat is basically at the lowest.
@Ruffles,
I'm taller than you (6'4") but the rest matches your profile (driving a Model 3, wearing glasses, alone in the car, driving early/late, freeway driving, rainy at times, etc.) other than the light traffic (that ain't happening in SoCal, except maybe at 3 am). BUT I have relatively short legs, tall torso; my chair seat has to be all the way down, so I have headroom. As @Mardak says, that may make the difference. I've never got a strike (not counting going over 80mph, but that's a different story) and very limited "Pay attention" messages even when I'm using the touchscreen to adjust temperature, turn defoggers or just switch the music. So maybe that the camera cannot really see you if your seat is too high. Hope it helps.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
If this is the baseline, we can hardly ever comment about anything in this forum
Crew_Dragon
Member
Do we know if FSD strikes expire or roll off your "record" after some time? Asking for a friend.
Not yet. I've seen that after 3 strikes, you get a message that FSD will be restored with a future software update but that could mean anything. I believe it was @DirtyT3sla who confirmed installing 10.6 did NOT reset the count. Fingers crossed 10.6.1 will.
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