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Driving between Bay area and LA
- Thread starter Howdus
- Start date
Sorry I wasn't clear. The context was frequent long drives. The question was about the impact of driving at a high rate of speed. I know the answer is yes...the question is if it is much more than a gas vehicle. My experience on short drives with a Leaf that it is much more of an impact than on gasoline consumption.
Indeed.
85 mph aero impact or elevation-gain impact to EV and ICE are same in absolute energy terms.
However, because flat-ground cruise energy for EV is so much lower than for ICE (which wastes monstrous amounts on engine internal friction and heat), the percentage impact of is far greater.
Simplified example. ICE driving LA -> Mammoth (300 miles, 7000 ft elevation gain) uses 15 gallons of gas, plus an extra 1 for the climb ... less than 10% extra. Tesla uses 3 gallons energy equivalent, plus the same 1 for the climb ... 33% extra.
Same applies with driving 85 mph rather than 65 mph.
Keep in mind that a Model 3 LR battery carries the energy equivalent of roughly a 2.5 gallon gas tank.
And on the way back down the mountain, the EV refills its tank whereas the ICE does not. The difference in total round trip extra fuel used becomes less.
In an EV, just slow down if you are worried about consumption. On a trip from LA to SF, it's only a 1/2 hour difference in trip time driving 75mph vs. 85mph. I am always amazed that people will mostly choose risking getting there 1/2 hour quicker; for a chance at a pricey ticket, a point on your record, and increased insurance premiums. All to save a 1/2 hour.
In an EV, just slow down if you are worried about consumption. On a trip from LA to SF, it's only a 1/2 hour difference in trip time driving 75mph vs. 85mph. I am always amazed that people will mostly choose risking getting there 1/2 hour quicker; for a chance at a pricey ticket, a point on your record, and increased insurance premiums. All to save a 1/2 hour.
Thanks for the replies and information. Helps me understand what I could see in the Leaf on short trips. We will get rid of the Highlander and go with a Model 3 and a Leaf. Guess I won't go see my mom in San Diego as much. Just kidding mom.
You can play with speed multiplier (and other variables) on EV Trip Planner and see how many rated miles will be consumed.
T34ME
Active Member
This is one of the benefits of being older and retired.......we never have to worry about getting anywhere 1/2 hour earlier. We just set the TACC for whatever the local speed limit is, camp out in the right lane and just sit back, relax, smell the flowers, and enjoy the scenery. The stock yard near Harris Ranch is always a highlight. Gives an opportunity to clear the sinuses! And then there will be the long leisurely stop at the Kettleman charger, time to explore beautiful downtown Kettleman. YES, aging up does have its benefits!
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
I got to scope out that supercharger in Kettlemen a couple of months ago- it's pretty impressive!
Sparky
Member
It is my experience so far that the Model 3 takes less of a range hit vs speed than our LEAF. We drive semi-frequently (~ 6-8 weeks) between Santa Cruz and SoCal.
I don't drive 80+ on the 5 but I'm married to someone who may
. With the Model 3, no matter who is driving, we can do this with one stop at Kettleman City and just charge a bit longer if "lead-foot" has been behind the wheel. However, be aware that the conditions matter with such a trip; that is, if we hit headwinds, wet conditions etc, another stop may be required. IMO, just the addition of AP2 for long drives on the 5 in the model 3 makes the trip so much nicer than if we saved 30 mins by taking the ICE. So we sold ours (XC90).
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
As Sparky says, there are more variables to consider than just your set speed.
If you are driving with a headwind, the energy use will be much higher than with a tailwind.
Driving 80 in heavy rain will also cost you some range.
Going uphill at 80 will increase the drain even more, but you will gain some of that range back when you get there.
To see how all these variables are doing you can easily check your display. Your Navigation will show you the estimated charge calculated to be remaining when you get to your destination. Slow down a little and you will see your remaining go up. Speed up a little and you will see your remaining drop.
It is kind of interesting to me, how many individuals that claim great concern for the environment still want to drive at the highest possible speeds to get to their destination, polluting and consuming more resources along the way. ICE vehicles consume lots more fuel at these speeds, but their large fuel tanks make it less of an inconvenience. Only takes a few seconds more, and a slightly higher charge on your credit cars to refuel and travel at these higher speeds, but when you realize that millions of cars are doing this, the environmental costs are significant.
With an EV you become more aware of the additional energy costs of running at maximum speeds. You see it on your gauges and with longer recharging stops. Advantages of just droping down 5 mph result in much safer travel, quieter ride, less stress, greater efficiency, better tire wear, less road damage, and a much more enjoyable journey.
If you are driving with a headwind, the energy use will be much higher than with a tailwind.
Driving 80 in heavy rain will also cost you some range.
Going uphill at 80 will increase the drain even more, but you will gain some of that range back when you get there.
To see how all these variables are doing you can easily check your display. Your Navigation will show you the estimated charge calculated to be remaining when you get to your destination. Slow down a little and you will see your remaining go up. Speed up a little and you will see your remaining drop.
It is kind of interesting to me, how many individuals that claim great concern for the environment still want to drive at the highest possible speeds to get to their destination, polluting and consuming more resources along the way. ICE vehicles consume lots more fuel at these speeds, but their large fuel tanks make it less of an inconvenience. Only takes a few seconds more, and a slightly higher charge on your credit cars to refuel and travel at these higher speeds, but when you realize that millions of cars are doing this, the environmental costs are significant.
With an EV you become more aware of the additional energy costs of running at maximum speeds. You see it on your gauges and with longer recharging stops. Advantages of just droping down 5 mph result in much safer travel, quieter ride, less stress, greater efficiency, better tire wear, less road damage, and a much more enjoyable journey.
I’m curious how this affects the Model 3 since it has permanent magnet motors that lose efficiency more dramatically at higher speeds, but in my Model S I frequently drive 80-85 down i-5 without a worry about range. If anything, extreme crosswinds during certain times of year have a more devastating impact on range than speeding 15mph.
Honestly I think some competing EV’s tried way too hard to game their rated efficiency by overly optimizing for slower city speeds since it’s the larger weighted average of the combined rating.
Honestly I think some competing EV’s tried way too hard to game their rated efficiency by overly optimizing for slower city speeds since it’s the larger weighted average of the combined rating.
The aerodynamics of the car makes a big difference. The leaf most likely suffers more of a loss at higher speeds because of its .32CD vs the Model 3's .23CD.
It is my experience so far that the Model 3 takes less of a range hit vs speed than our LEAF. We drive semi-frequently (~ 6-8 weeks) between Santa Cruz and SoCal.
I don't drive 80+ on the 5 but I'm married to someone who may
I had a Prius which had a low CD. Any idea in terms of % of efficiency this would be between a Leaf and Model 3?
Esme Es Mejor
Member
You will see some hit in the Model 3, but nowhere near as bad as on the Leaf. The Leaf has an EPA rating of 124 city/ 101 highway. The Model 3 has rating of 131 city/ 120 highway. Somewhat more efficient than the Leaf in city driving, way more efficient on the highway.
The EPA rates the Model 3’s highway range as 295 highway miles. I believe they test at 65 mph, so you’re probably down to 250 miles or so if you’re driving 80-85. Still enough to get you to LA with one charging stop.
Worst case scenario (cold, windy day), maybe you have to make a quick 2nd stop.
Could you say more about the different motor styles-- Permanent magnets vs. Induction-- maybe point me to the thread-- okay I guess I can search-- so what do you think about the switch-- is this a major philosophical departing from whatever mission made Elon go with Tesla's 1888 (or whenever) AC induction design ....??? Not just better batteries (2170) but a different fundamental motor design???
I can't speak anything about motor technology, but the displayed efficiency on my 3 on its first day's commute has been very impressive. A round trip totaling about 70 miles of ~70-75mph driving with about 3 miles of city stop/go, showed ~240Wh/mile. I was previously driving a Fiat 500e and a similar drive would show ~3.5 miles/kWh or 285Wh/mile. The Fiat had awful aerodynamics (noticeably more wind noise at 75mph vs 65mph) and less than half the total horsepower of the Model 3.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Got stuck at this point in yer post
. And not in Kettleman, thankfully. Although I did notice both a Starbucks *and* an In-N-Out. So they are surely stylin’ now.Best use of a former Burger King property and sign ever.
No rampant speeding for me anymore either since switching to the quiet (EV) life. I rarely if ever drive more than 5mph over any highway speed limit. Although in Utah or Montana that’s plenty anyway. And I still get passed by those wobbling, swaying triple-trailered semis.
Where are the engineers who are so quick to post criticism when the rest of us confuse watt hours / mile with watt hrs or whatever? Looking for a summary of the differences between AC Induction motor design and PBEM or whatever the permanent magnet design is. Model S has the former; Model 3 the latter. Don't make me look it up and post it myself!
I think it is important because Model S and 3 are different in many different ways-- fundamental motor design being one of them.
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