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Driving from Toronto to Montreal

Discussion in 'Canada' started by djp, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    This summer I'm planning to take my Roadster to Montreal for a weekend, just to try out the Sun Country Highway charging network. The 70A chargers should make it a lot easier than the previous long distance trips I've done using KOA campsites.

    I'm thinking of the following legs:

    Toronto to Kingston - 264km
    Best Western Fireplace Inn, SCH 70A
    Lunch - Range Charge

    Kingston to Cornwall - 180km
    Best Western Parkway Inn, SCH 70A
    Shorter break - Standard Charge

    Cornwall to Montreal - 117km

    That should leave me with enough range to get back to Cornwall if I don't drive the car in Montreal. The other option is to attempt a straight run from Kingston to Montreal (291km) but that would put me close to zero on arrival, especially at 401 speeds.

    The only hotel I see listed with an ESVE in downtown Montreal is the Sheraton Centre with a ChargePoint station. Any other recommendations? Has anyone tried this drive yet?
     
  2. patp

    patp Member

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    There are many stations in premium parking spaces near hotels in Montreal. The best network would be:

    ReseauVER

    However, you need a card even if charging is free at many of their locations.

    I live in Quebec City and that's what I used when I park in Montreal.
     
  3. EricH

    EricH Member

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    A Supercharger station is being built right now at an "Onroute" station in the Kingston area, which should pretty well solve the Toronto-Montreal range shortfall. I received this information from the specialists at the Toronto store, and their phone# is 416-787-6180. I have an April or May delivery "guesstimate" for my red P85, and am itching to take advantage of this facility.
     
  4. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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  5. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I'm guessing the Odessa rest stop. I seem to recall that it's possible to get to it from both sides of the highway. 235 km from Tesla Yorkdale. About 200 km from Ottawa, and 300 km from Montreal. That's perfect for Ottawa. For Montreal, I think they will need another one near Cornwall. 300 km is a bit long at 401 speeds in the winter.
     
  6. EricH

    EricH Member

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    Very true, but nonetheless I am thrilled that there is one this close to us this early in the network development. Apparently Yorkdale is a very productive store, and it seems that Tesla has it's finger on the pulse.
     
  7. CanuckS#69

    CanuckS#69 Member

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    I made the run to Montreal and back last weekend, although I live north of Toronto rather than in the city. We took the 401 route to Montreal and returned via Ottawa and Peterborough. Two different On Route plazas had signs up at the Canadian Tire stations saying "future home of electric vehicle charging station", but we used the Sun Country 90a chargers at Best Westerns to top up. Charging twice in either direction definitely added time to the trip over an ICE trip, but the Supercharger should solve that. The Museum of Science and Technology in Ottawa is a nice stop over, we actually spent so much time in the museum that we were fully charged on leaving. They even have a Tesla coil. :)

    In Montreal, we stayed at the Hotel Mortagne which has a reserved spot and 90a Sun Country charger. We'll be making the same trip a few more times this year, so I'm certainly looking forward to the Supercharger, but it is quite doable without range anxiety with the number of Sun Country chargers along the route.
     
  8. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    Thanks CanuckS#69! My J1772 adapter arrived this week - I'll try making the trip next month when the weather warms up.
     
  9. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    #9 djp, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
    I'm going to give this a shot tomorrow. I've called ahead to the Best Westerns in Kingston and Cornwall - both were super friendly to talk to and happy to hold a spot for me. The Sun Country Highway map shows the Kingston station down, but it's actually operational. There's also a CS90 going into the Best Western in Belleville, which would have been a good alternative to Kingston, but it's not being installed until next week.

    First long distance road trip in my Roadster!
     
  10. CanuckS#69

    CanuckS#69 Member

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    I've both charged and stayed at the Kingston Best Western. Belleville wasn't operational last I went that way. I'll be making the run next weekend, with a stop at Kingston and a stay at Hotel Mortagne in Montreal. It helps to make sure in advance that they know you're driving an EV, even just to let them know where the business is coming from. Oh, and the giant pile of snow at the Kingston spot was nearly gone last I was there, so you don't have to wiggle around the handicapped spot. :)
     
  11. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    It was a very smooth trip, I'm relaxing in Old Montreal now enjoying a nice 23C spring day. I made a two hour stop for breakfast at the Best Western in Kingston, and another hour for lunch in Cornwall. The 70A chargers made the trip easy, but I can see them becoming bottlenecks as more Model S's are delivered, we really need Superchargers and more CS90s for the major routes.

    I had a strong tail wind and followed a few trucks which helped the range. Surprisingly I was able to beat Ideal Range for the whole trip while averaging 105km/h.
     
  12. toto_48313

    toto_48313 CAN P #5

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    Nice, rest well and see you tomorrow!
     
  13. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    I've collected stats on my trip from Toronto to Montreal and back, and the lesson learned is tail winds have a big impact!

    On the trip to Montreal I had a brisk tail wind ahead of the storm that hit Friday night and I was easily able to beat Ideal Range at highway speeds. Average energy usage was 145 Wh/km. The way home wasn't so easy, since I was now facing a light and variable head wind and temperatures just above the freezing mark. The leg from Montreal to Cornwall came in at 20% below Ideal Range while the rest of the trip was about 10% under Ideal. Average energy usage was 159 Wh/km and I burned an extra 10kWh compared to the inbound trip.

    In both cases I had climate control off and kept the speed around 105km/h while following trucks where possible. The elevation change from Toronto to Montreal is 230 ft, so negligible for energy use. On the way home I used Doug's trick of fan off, recirculation on, air to vents, and vents closed to keep the outside air out of the cabin - with the sun it was actually quite comfortable.

    My basic strategy was to arrive at each charge stop with at least 100km Ideal Range remaining. At each stop I would charge just long enough to have a 100km buffer to the next stop. During the trip I'd watch the difference between GPS range and Projected range to track if the buffer was growing or shrinking, and change my driving if it looked like it would drop below 90km (by reducing speed or getting behind a truck). A few things I learned on the trip:

    • 208V 70A will charge the Roadster at 80km/h
    • Roadster range projections are more accurate than I expected
    • It's possible to achieve Ideal Range on a highway by following trucks and sticking to 105km/h (if the winds are right)
    • With proper planning range anxiety is a non-issue, but anxiety over access to charge locations is real (with only two 70As on the route)

    Here are the detailed stats:

    Montreal.png

    A Model S 85 would have made the trip easier by cutting out one charge stop. And of course with Superchargers it would be a piece of cake.
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Nice record keeping! You "spent" 1266 Ideal Km (including your charge in Montreal, which you didn't list but the needed data is there). That's about 3.3 packs worth of electricity, or about 175 kWh. At typical Ontario rates that's about $23. Mind you, you did some charging in Quebec, where it's a lot cheaper. But since you only had to actually pay for the electrons to refill your pack when you got home, your trip essentially cost you $5.

    Glad to hear you made good use of the vent trick. It took me a few road trips before I figured that one out! Really helps to have the sunshine, too.

    You are very smart to maintain a 100 km limit. Personally I do push it farther than that; my lower bound is 30 km, although I usually try to keep it to 40. When you're pushing it that much you really need to be on top of the Projected Range (Actual Range in Roadster-speak); I literally check it every few minutes. Actual/Projected is very accurate once you've driven far enough for it to settle in.

    I have also noticed many times that it takes more energy to go west than east, no doubt because the prevailing winds are from the west.
     
  15. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    Thanks Doug. Total cost of about $5 is about right, maybe a little less on TOU rates.

    I used the AddÉnergie stations in Old Montreal under the Intercontinental Hotel. For now they're free with parking, but starting May 1 they'll be charging $1/hr. That would add $5-6 to the trip. I also spent about $60 on meals at Best Westerns, which would have otherwise been cheaper at OnRoute stations, but I'm happy to support them and Sun Country Highway. All-in still nowhere close to the cost of gas.

    I had a great chat with the assistant manager at the Kingston Best Western. It sounds like they're evaluating the program and mulling over restrictions or fees on the stations. Access is hit and miss now so a formal policy would be helpful, and there will be competition for the spots this summer as more Model S's hit the roads.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I've had pretty mixed experiences at the Kingston Best Western. The first time I dropped by the desk to thank them for the charger, and the response was a kinda snarky, "are you actually staying here?" I told them I was going to eat in their restaurant, which I did - I was hungry! The second time I was ICEd but they were very helpful. Unfortunately they picked a very poor location for the charger, right beside an access door, with only one accessible spot (other than a wheelchar spot) and no signs reserving it for EVs. So it's extremely likely to be ICEd.

    Once there is significant contention for the chargers, a fee per hour makes a lot of sense. People who don't really need charging won't use it, and those who really need it will have more access. And it will help pay the location's costs. But they really should have an EV-only sign there, and enforce it. There's not much point to having these chargers if no one who needs them can use them.
     
  17. agileone

    agileone CDN P#40

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    Made the reverse trip last weekend : Montreal to Toronto for the long weekend.

    We called the trip : TTTTTTTT (Two Thousand Thirtheen Totally Tesla Tour To Toronto)

    Had a few surprises, but as usual with Model S, no drama ...

    Montreal - Kingston : Thursday night, we arrived at Best Western around 10pm and we were ICEd on the first stop. A SUV with a UHaul found the spot appealing, since it is the last one in the parking and his trailer was therefore out of the way.
    I had called ahead and asked for the spot to be reserved, so was a little nervous, but after checking at the reception, they quickly had the offending driver free the spot. The guy quickly came around for some Tesla Time...

    Made it with about 40km left, averaging 185wh/km. Drove about 100km/hour and no AC. Was getting 71km/hour on their CS-90 charger.
    IMG_20130620_215715.jpg


    Made it to Toronto the next day without problems as the distance is a bit shorter. Stayed at Town and Inn because of their Sun Country charger.
    Had a little scare when I first got there, as they directed me to the second level of the parking where the charger was.
    When I got there I realized it didn't look right. It turned out to be an old Tesla charger for the Roadster.
    Inquired at the reception, and was told there was another one outside in the back of the hotel. A CS-60 delivering 56km/hour. Relief.

    Enjoyed Toronto for three days...

    On the return trip, we were going back through Prince Edouard County, staying one night at the very nice Huff's Estate Inn in Bloomfield. (The Inn : The Inn at Huff Estates)
    I had called ahead and indicated I would like to charge my EV while staying. They were ready and had been planning. Nice!
    They indicated that there was 2 plugs by the right side of the reception, that I could park on the grass if necessary, since it was a good 50 feets from the closest parking spot.
    So i checked it out and it turn out there was a 14-50 plug in there! But pretty far. Good thing I brought my 30 feet 50 amps extension.

    Backed the car on the grass, took out the charging equipment and got to connect everything. But the 14-50 plug has been installed upside down and the cover prevented the 50 amps extension from being plugged in.
    Noticed the cover was simply screwed to the box, while the plug was solidly attached to the box. So I borrowed a screwdriver and quickly resole the matter.

    IMG_6306.JPG IMG_6305.jpg IMG_6303.jpg

    Return the cover lid to its original position. So bring a screwdriver, if you intend to stay there. I explained the problem to them so hopefully it will be resolved permanently the next time I go there.


    The next day, leaving with a full charge, we stopped again at Best Western in Kingston for late lunch and some time by the pool, to refill and make it to Montreal.
    Made it home goign faster, with AC on and some bad storm around Cornwall, but did not influence range.

    1281km and 183wh/km. No drama.
    IMG_20130624_202248.jpg

    Checked out all OnRoute stops for ongoing construction, but did not notice anything. So no supercharger to report.

    Unpleasant sight, seen at Legoland in Toronto :
    IMG_20130622_190642.jpg

    Caught this pleasant sight on our way home :
    image.jpeg
     
  18. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Thanks for the very nice trip report.

    Also nice energy consumption numbers!
     
  19. Username

    Username Member

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    Don't know where you heard this from but that's not true.
    There are absolutely no Superchargers under construction at all in Canada, and Whistler BC near Vancouver was scheduled to be the first in line. Ain't happening until probably next year!
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Warning to road-trippers: Cobourg Best Western is offline... and apparently now available to hotel guests only.
     

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