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Discussion in 'Model S' started by Seashepherd, Apr 14, 2018.
He didn’t say he bought one.
Seems like pretty valid criticism, not sure where the negative responses are coming from.
The car is great, but yes you’re right, it’s not able to sustain ultra high speed as long as a high spec ICE car.
On the other hand, Tesla can hardly be blamed for not highlighting this <0.001% scenario.
In Europe it is not a 0,001% scenario
When driving in Germany I love to maintain a high speed if my route allows it.
It should be mentioned in my opinion.
Before purchase it is called an explanation, afterwards it is a poor excuse. Trust should be build by good information beforehand and can not be build by poor excuses afterwards.
Even with the problem to maintain real high speed travel I’ll love my MS 75D.
And for the OP it’s a 100% scenario.
But that’s not how statistics work.
You are right. Exclude cars outside Europe and the stastictics will change.
I'm actually pretty sad that this kind of unconstructive posts (some would consider it an insult, hate, envy) are actually posted and tolerated on this forum. A forum like this is the place to ask such questions, and it seems that the OP did his research work but was not successful in finding more information on this issue.
I agree. Even though I'm a speed addict, I could not imagine going back to an ICE that would allow me to sustain the high speed for longer. The reason: I accelerate 100 times more often than I travel at really high speed and find myself limited by the car. And I just love the acceleration. So this overcompensates for the high-speed limitation.
I agree. I’m guessing it is discussed more frequently in autobahn countries. Car reviews, words of mouth, questions during the sales process, etc.
It is kinda a don’t care for the majority of those of us here in the US.
I'm sorry but I don't know where you're getting this.
Germany is just one country in Europe. Not the whole continent. And only around half of the autobahns in Germany allow you to go faster than 130 Km/h (80 miles/h).
130 Km/h is, by the way, most of Europe's speed limit. A bunch of countries have 120 Km/h limits (around 75 mi/h) and even slower 110 Km/h (68 mi/h). And a couple of then will go as hight as 140 Km/h (87 mi/h).
All of those speed are hardly any challenge for a Tesla. So I would say statistics are very well within range for Europe and Germany is indeed a statistical anomaly in this case.
We are both right
I can definitely see a case for Tesla having a disclaimer on perhaps just the German site to say “top speed cannot be sustained indefinitely“ or something like that.
For the non-German European sites there’s a lower chance that buyers will encounter this problem, so Tesla might not bother to have the disclaimer. And for non-Euro sites just forget about it completely.
I did push my S85D a few times on a dry sunny Sunday morning driving back from the alps back to the Netherlands.
Just for trying. And I did hit the 250km/h. But I slowed down before any restraint kicked in. The sunroof gets pretty noisy.
Cruising at 200 km/h is still pretty fast and well sustainable. Until the next SuperCharger.
Do not forget less than 5 years ago this would have been deemed impossible for any EV.
You can over heat the cars without going anywhere near 250km/h. Just enthusiastic driving on a twisty stretch can eventually bring it on. I’d imagine a flat 250km/h would be easier on the battery than constant slowing and speeding up as you pass through traffic at over 150km/h.
It’s a shift of mindset. Just like when the P85D came out hitting fast 0-60 times there was some disappointment at higher speed because people compared it to ICE - cars that were quick to 60 were also quick at high speed. Teslas have better performance at low speed but worse at high speed compared to ICE, the great thing is we do the low speed on every journey, we do the high speed only occasionally. Given a choice it’s how you’d want it.
Boy, the word "devastating" is certainly being used lightly nowadays. How about saying what you (should) mean, like upsetting/distressing/disappointing etc? Or do you prefer the role of a drama queen? The drama takes away from the legitimate point: Tesla Model S don't do so well with sustained high rates of speed, > 120 mph or 190 kph. For most of us, probably all of us outside of Germany, that's a non-issue.
Im convinced the Model 3 will not have this reduced-power issue thanks to a new motor design (switched reluctance) and a better motor cooling system. Range at ultra-high speed will continue to be an issue though. There is no way to get around the drag issue without using a Roadster-sized battery.
Tesla needs to use this motor in the S and X sooner rather than later.
Fortunately, nobody has ever mistaken the 405 in Los Angeles for the Autobahn....if you can get sustained speeds of 12 mph you're cruising.
Just to clarify,
I do not own a Tesla...yet. Reason for being is the ‘communication problem’ with Tesla. I drive Autobahn daily, and it’s almost always empty and unlimited. So how a Tesla would react to high speed driving is very important to me. I tried to research the forums, nothing. Called up and visited the dealerships, no info (really? Come on, they’re not stupid in Germany. They know EXACTLY that driving fast kills the battery charge and that Tesla regulates the speed according to battery status. But they won’t tell you). I called Tesla Germany. No one could tell me either. I called Tesla US, nada.
Then I drove a MX P100D over the Brenner highway Italy back to Austria, Battery gone after half an hour. I thought the car had a bad battery. Now I tested the MS P100D, same thing.
Here’s an example: Tesla’s battery is at 50% and I’m driving a 10 Minute Autobahn stretch from the city to my home. I would make it home easily at full speed, but the car won’t let my go over 200...
If I buy a 150k P100D and I want to drive it full speed then at least I should be told about the overheating problem, not find out myself. This is supposed to be an overpriced Lambo killer, but in certain ways it fails to do so, and Tesla is not really truthful about it.It’s a major issue if you live in my area and you intend to drive fast, like many do here.
Having said this, I still love the car and the company. The AP is phenomenal. The acceleration is stupid fun. The screen is unmatched.
Btw, here we have the same problem with the German car companies. I just tried the brand new Audi A8. I currently drive an Audi RS6 Avant (and BMW I8, and Morgan 3W...but that’s another story ;o). )and the Audi guys know that I most probably will switch to Tesla, so they tried to convince me that the Audi ‘Stauassist’, Audi’s much hyped version of AP, is so much better than Teslas. It’s a piece of crap, they are so behind Tesla, it’s sad. And they lie about it. They claim that their AP can be activated to Stage 5 as soon as the government allows it. BS, it doesn’t even recognize simple curves...
I hope this thread helps as decision support for all who are intending to drive higher speeds on the Autobahn. And maybe someone knows of a hack of how to overwrite the forced speed throttling ;o)
The main problem on the German Autobahn is the traffic. Most of the time, staying at 250 kph for more than a few kilometers is near impossible, either because of frequent roadworks, heavy traffic, or just simply bad road conditions. Plus, as others have said, there are many stretches of Autobahn where there are speed limits after all.
I was under the impression that the lack of high speed performance (both in speed, and in endurance) was a well known limitation with a Tesla Model S/X.
In fact Porsche laughed at the Tesla track performance to such a degree that they dismissed it completely as not being anywhere near the same league as what the Porsche will offer.
So if you really want an autobahn optized EV then I'd suggest waiting for the Porsche.
For Tesla I think it's such a small market that they can ignore it with exception to new Roadster.
Since Porsche is going to be the superhero here - Even once Porsche solves the heating problem, there is still the range problem.
The high speed autobahn cruisers don’t get anywhere near their rated mpg or km/L at top speed. An extra stop at a gas station solves this for an ICE. Battery will need more capacity, faster charging, or both.
Sure, maybe a gearbox will help optimize motor RPM for some improvement, but I feel that is pretty minor based on my reading.
Really high-speed travel is difficult for any battery-powered vehicle. Power to overcome aerodynamic drag increases with V-cubed, so instead of the perhaps 23kW needed for US highway speeds (75 mph) in a model S, you need perhaps 150kW at 250 km/h! Range is roughly proportional to V-squared, so if you want to travel on the Autobahn at 250 km/h, you better spring for the next Tesla Roadster and its 200kWh battery pack. The power required at high speed also stresses cooling systems, and the MS and MX were clearly not optimized for 250 km/h travel. If they were, they wouldn't have inductive motors, which are less efficient at high power than PMAC motors -- and less efficient means more waste heat at that operating point. Of course, the reason the MS was designed as it was is because there really is only one country in the world where such speeds are anything like routine, and even there only on a few routes, either because of increasing speed limits or because of traffic. The Porsche Mission E will have superior cooling, and will almost certainly cruise at 250 km/h as long as its battery lasts -- but that's unlikely to be for more than 40 minutes or so based on rumored battery capacity. Better wait for the Tesla Roadster -- it might be able to run 80 minutes or more, and cover more than 330 km at 250 km/h.