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Pandamoanium
Member
Haha, some of us want to be frugal! Even if it's in the wrong area. Though I'll say the best and safest for winter and snowy conditions is being smart and safe. Know your vehicle and don't be a teenage kid taking the BMW for a spin blasting EDM.
K-MTG
Sunshade Captain of TMC
I am in the O.C it doesn't snow here but do I need snow tires on my X when I drive up to the mountains (once a year - 1 day)?
Further experience on the all seasons tonight.
We were driving home from work late. Wind is howling, snow is blowing across the road. My wife comments, "better watch out for black ice". Um right... these are kinda ideal conditions for that. We're a ways from a red light so I figure I should test the traction. I lift my foot a bit. The car immediately starts spinning!
I slam on the brakes to engage the ABS and countersteer. This pulls the car out of the spin at about 30 degrees to the road. I straighten it out and keep the wheels on the snowbound road center until we're slowed right down.
Okay, I'm hoping I get my car back soon. These tires suck.
We were driving home from work late. Wind is howling, snow is blowing across the road. My wife comments, "better watch out for black ice". Um right... these are kinda ideal conditions for that. We're a ways from a red light so I figure I should test the traction. I lift my foot a bit. The car immediately starts spinning!
I slam on the brakes to engage the ABS and countersteer. This pulls the car out of the spin at about 30 degrees to the road. I straighten it out and keep the wheels on the snowbound road center until we're slowed right down.
Okay, I'm hoping I get my car back soon. These tires suck.
K-MTG
Sunshade Captain of TMC
I expected more from these tires? Can anyone comment how they compare with the MDX? I plan on going chainless with the all seasons to Sand Bernardino mountains (big bear - snow valley) for skiing
Ambidexter
Member
Boy, the internet is full of very conflicting opinions on the matter of All Season tires, Winter tires, and the various subclassifications within those! It's a little bit like the opinions in this particular thread! 
That being said, I'm wondering if folks have any data to share about three specific questions:
- How bad is 45-65F heat for winter tires? Are we talking 10% worse wear or 50%? A li
- There seems to be some distinction between super-soft "snow tires" (terrible traction about 20 degrees) and "modern winter tires" (fine traction on cold wet/dry roads), though maybe that's just internet baloney?
- Are there any recommendations for 20" better-for-the-snow all-season tire (like the WRG3 except they only come in 19)? For an incremental improvement from the Contintentals it would be nice to not buy a new set of wheels.
My situation is weekday driving in 45-65 degree weather (wet and dry) during the week and snow driving many but not all weekends for the next 3 months. We've always used All-Season on our AWD sedan in the past, and have been generally fine, but if there's a reasonable way (both in cost and hassle) to get better traction on this new car we've been convinced by this thread we should do it.
That being said, I'm wondering if folks have any data to share about three specific questions:- How bad is 45-65F heat for winter tires? Are we talking 10% worse wear or 50%? A li
- There seems to be some distinction between super-soft "snow tires" (terrible traction about 20 degrees) and "modern winter tires" (fine traction on cold wet/dry roads), though maybe that's just internet baloney?
- Are there any recommendations for 20" better-for-the-snow all-season tire (like the WRG3 except they only come in 19)? For an incremental improvement from the Contintentals it would be nice to not buy a new set of wheels.
My situation is weekday driving in 45-65 degree weather (wet and dry) during the week and snow driving many but not all weekends for the next 3 months. We've always used All-Season on our AWD sedan in the past, and have been generally fine, but if there's a reasonable way (both in cost and hassle) to get better traction on this new car we've been convinced by this thread we should do it.
Sorry it's in german, but our Touring Club is famous for his tests.
Ganzjahresreifen-Test - TCS Schweiz (DISCLOSURE: The dimensions are wrong.)
The summary is clear, the best All-Seasons are considerably worse than good winter or summer tires. Only season tires can ensure the best security.
Ganzjahresreifen-Test - TCS Schweiz (DISCLOSURE: The dimensions are wrong.)
The summary is clear, the best All-Seasons are considerably worse than good winter or summer tires. Only season tires can ensure the best security.
jsollender
Member
Not trying to hijack this thread but winter driving also includes being able to see where you are going! My 90D June build with cold weather package sucks in the snow in Denver. Driving Homer from downtown yesterday at 10 degrees with moderate snow fall the defroster would not get enough heat to prevent ice buildup on the front glass and the wiper heaters also would not stop ice from building on the wipers. With the wipers just smearing snow and slush across the screen, it was more efficient for viewing to let snow droplets turn to water and leave it on glass instead of wiping it with wipers. This was night driving and a real PITA. Anyone else extremely disappointed with cold weather wiper/defroster function in snow?
DrivingTheFuture
Member
THIS. We have had fantastic winter driving performance with our X. This all comes down to wheels, tires, conditions, and knowledge of the driver. The weight of the X and it's superior traction control give it a strong advantage in the snow/ice over other vehicles. However even the best setup will slide in the right weather conditions, so whenever I leave our house in inclement weather I test the limits (scrub) of my traction on our private street so I know what I have to work with out in traffic. Just my 2 cents but I'm surprised to see so many complaints here
goneskiian
Active Member
Quoting both since I couldn't remember which tires you were on with your loaner. Thanks for the follow up!
Um, no the WRG3 goes up to 21". Check out the SUV version. I have 20's on mine.Boy, the internet is full of very conflicting opinions on the matter of All Season tires, Winter tires, and the various subclassifications within those! It's a little bit like the opinions in this particular thread!
- How bad is 45-65F heat for winter tires? Are we talking 10% worse wear or 50%? A li
- There seems to be some distinction between super-soft "snow tires" (terrible traction about 20 degrees) and "modern winter tires" (fine traction on cold wet/dry roads), though maybe that's just internet baloney?
- Are there any recommendations for 20" better-for-the-snow all-season tire (like the WRG3 except they only come in 19)? For an incremental improvement from the Contintentals it would be nice to not buy a new set of wheels.
My situation is weekday driving in 45-65 degree weather (wet and dry) during the week and snow driving many but not all weekends for the next 3 months. We've always used All-Season on our AWD sedan in the past, and have been generally fine, but if there's a reasonable way (both in cost and hassle) to get better traction on this new car we've been convinced by this thread we should do it.
Nokian WRG3 SUV - Winter Tires / Nokian Tires
I love the heated steering and seats from the winter package but find the interior heat capability very poor. In 0-10 degree F weather the interior never gets warm. I am going to have the SC look at it sometime in the spring when I have time to drive to Vancouver for an appointment. If this is the normal capacity, then it is underbuilt for Canadian conditions.
Traction outside of sheer ice is amazing.
Traction outside of sheer ice is amazing.
Phil Seastrand
Member
Did you touch the defroster icon twice to get the red icon? One press will give you a cold defroster icon and the second press gives you the red (hot) defroster.
Ambidexter
Member
Thanks goneskiian! I didn't think to look for a separate SUV section.
Does anyone have data or experience with real world tire wear for winter tires in 60 degree weather?
SMSMD
Active Member
I agree you should get it checked. I love my interior heat. A timeline of screenshots for those interested in numbers.
Attachments
X Fan
Active Member
AndreyATC
Member
Keep in mind, your ICE most likely had different AS tires, which may have suited better for mud/snow
Some All-seasons are more performance oriented and some are better for off-road
So, if anything, with the same road conditions and the same tires, Tesla would probably do better than most ICE cars
P.S. I would never leave my garage without winter tires if there is a snow/ice on the ground
goneskiian
Active Member
You're welcome!
Nothing empirical but these tires do pretty well year round. Obviously their snow capability will be diminished quicker the more you drive them on hot pavement than if they were kept as seasonal tires.
A colder, slightly more solid version of that stuff mingling with the sand in your profile picture.
akira3d
Member
I watched my cousin having a similar debate about AWD with All-Season vs 2WD with Winter Tires on Facebook. He's all about the snow tires, but he lives in Toronto.
Like the others of you who live in SoCal or other regions with snowless winters, but who love to play in it by taking road trips to local mountains, I simply can't justify switching tires given how infrequently I would truly reap the benefits of doing so.
During the several years I had season passes to Mammoth Mountain, I can probably count the number of days I put chains on the front wheels of my all-season equipped Honda Pilot on one hand (and, even then, I probably didn't need chains for some of those days). I think I only once needed to engage the VTM-4 lock to send power to all four wheels. I don't usually do much driving once I am in the mountains, so I only bother using chains when it snows on the day I drive up or the day I drive back. And, unless that snowfall is heavy, the highways get cleared pretty quickly.
With AWD and all season tires, I figure the Model X will handle generally better in slippery conditions than a Pilot with similar rubber...so really, I think I'm still better off just carrying chains (especially if snow tires wear that much faster in warm conditions...which would amount to 95% of the miles driven to and from the mountain) and only using them when the conditions truly require them.
I was about to ask if I need chains for all four tires, but I see the Tesla Gear shop has a recommended chain that should only be installed on the rears...but these cost $500?!?!?
Like the others of you who live in SoCal or other regions with snowless winters, but who love to play in it by taking road trips to local mountains, I simply can't justify switching tires given how infrequently I would truly reap the benefits of doing so.
During the several years I had season passes to Mammoth Mountain, I can probably count the number of days I put chains on the front wheels of my all-season equipped Honda Pilot on one hand (and, even then, I probably didn't need chains for some of those days). I think I only once needed to engage the VTM-4 lock to send power to all four wheels. I don't usually do much driving once I am in the mountains, so I only bother using chains when it snows on the day I drive up or the day I drive back. And, unless that snowfall is heavy, the highways get cleared pretty quickly.
With AWD and all season tires, I figure the Model X will handle generally better in slippery conditions than a Pilot with similar rubber...so really, I think I'm still better off just carrying chains (especially if snow tires wear that much faster in warm conditions...which would amount to 95% of the miles driven to and from the mountain) and only using them when the conditions truly require them.
I was about to ask if I need chains for all four tires, but I see the Tesla Gear shop has a recommended chain that should only be installed on the rears...but these cost $500?!?!?
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thegruf
Active Member
@OP - whilst you might not like hearing it - as others have said if you are on snow, you need snow tyres. Period.
Anything else will be a less than predictable compromise and is a risk that you take (as many of us do in areas with only occasional snow).
You have said that the car skidded. The tyres broke traction. This is not a Tesla issue, but simply a fact that you applied too much stopping force for the conditions and that the tyres could cope with.
It is well known that ABS contributes little to stopping ability in snow, indeed there is a solid argument that without ABS the vehicle may stop quicker due to a build up of snow in front of locked wheels. What it may do is contribute to regaining control quicker at the end of the slide once the speed has come off.
One thing not mentioned in this thread so far is that your Tesla will likely weigh 1/2 - 1 ton more than your previous ICE vehicles.
The momentum from the additional mass is something you need to consider particularly in conditions where the tyres may lose traction.
Anything else will be a less than predictable compromise and is a risk that you take (as many of us do in areas with only occasional snow).
You have said that the car skidded. The tyres broke traction. This is not a Tesla issue, but simply a fact that you applied too much stopping force for the conditions and that the tyres could cope with.
It is well known that ABS contributes little to stopping ability in snow, indeed there is a solid argument that without ABS the vehicle may stop quicker due to a build up of snow in front of locked wheels. What it may do is contribute to regaining control quicker at the end of the slide once the speed has come off.
One thing not mentioned in this thread so far is that your Tesla will likely weigh 1/2 - 1 ton more than your previous ICE vehicles.
The momentum from the additional mass is something you need to consider particularly in conditions where the tyres may lose traction.
BigMskiman
Active Member
Did first ski trip yesterday. I have 22" Perrelli Asimmetrico (radial tubeless with M+S rating), though next week the standard 20" are going on. Only the large lodge parking lot provided a chance to test out the stability, and it was great. We were the first to arrive @7:30 and took time for some slow speed experiments. I set regen to low as was suggested here.
- Locked up the breaks during a turn, car did start to rotate but once I released the break it recovered.
- Normal pumping method of breaks very reliable to stop the car on a slope.
- If I punch the accelerator, I suspect all wheels were spinning and car beginning to rotate, but once off all petals, recovery happened.
As good or better than prior Sequoia & Jeep 4WD cars I had.
I have no hesitation to take the MX up anytime, though this was not a real test with traffic & snowing etc.
- Locked up the breaks during a turn, car did start to rotate but once I released the break it recovered.
- Normal pumping method of breaks very reliable to stop the car on a slope.
- If I punch the accelerator, I suspect all wheels were spinning and car beginning to rotate, but once off all petals, recovery happened.
As good or better than prior Sequoia & Jeep 4WD cars I had.
I have no hesitation to take the MX up anytime, though this was not a real test with traffic & snowing etc.
