Driving the Maritime Provinces and Newfoundland in an S85

[Doug_G]

Typically low voltage is due to a 3-phase power source, which is common at industrial sites and larger buildings. The power is supposed to be 208 volts, and it can only sag from there. Residential power is nominally 240V. We have a 20% difference in voltage between our office and my house. That means a 20% difference in charge rate, unfortunately.

 

[leafarmer]

Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear things are better, and the chargers are getting more use.

A quick update... Most of my driving since leaving New Brunswick has been on superchargers, but I did have the chance to use Sun Country chargers in Fresno, California. (Yes, I'm on the other side of the continent now). This was before and after a very wet backpacking trip into Sequoia National park. Before the trip there was no problem, but afterwards I was surprised to find both were in use, through the evening. I hadn't expected to find them in use, but if they are going to be unavailable, this is the best possible reason. Surprisingly the cars charging were distributor plated Porches -- Cayennes I think...

Does anyone know anything about these?

--leafarmer

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Porsche Cayenne Plug-in hybrid. 10.8kWh battery. Charges at L2 in approximately 2.3 hours, according to the Porsche site.

 

[RiverBrick]

TSurprisingly the cars charging were distributor plated Porches -- Cayennes I think...




Does anyone know anything about these?

--leafarmer

Not much, but their battery is only 9.6kWh. They can still take over three hours to recharge at L2, though. Apparently, their on-board charger is limited to 15 amps @ 208-240v.

 

[>NetZero]

Typically low voltage is due to a 3-phase power source, which is common at industrial sites and larger buildings. The power is supposed to be 208 volts, and it can only sag from there. Residential power is nominally 240V. We have a 20% difference in voltage between our office and my house. That means a 20% difference in charge rate, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info guys and it all makes sense now. So while these CS-90s are good, they are not great and not fully taking advantage of our twin chargers as they can only charge the car at <15 kW.

It was for this reason, my father and I, were discussing about the possibility of getting a new public charger installed in Grandfalls-Windsor that would be able to supply Tesla's with 20 kW.

We think Grandfalls-Windsor is the perfect location because it is the most central town with a large population (fifth on the island). It is 428 km from St. John's and 478 km from Port Aux Basque (where the ferry from NS lands on the west coast). This would greatly help travelling across the island or even if folks would like to come out from St. John's to explore central Newfoundland.

We were thinking about maybe installing one of these chargers at the Tim Hortons or MacDonalds in Grandfalls which is right there on the main strip of town.

In term of which charger, we were thinking either getting the new Sun Country Highway one SCH100 (up to 19.2 kW) or simply a Tesla HPWC. Any thoughts on which would be better.

Sun Country SCH100 - Standalone charging station thats been used in public spaces everywhere. $2349 plus tax. The J1772 connector will allow not only Tesla's to use it but other EV's as well, making the benefit to others. Although not sure which vehicles would be able to benefit from this fast charger in this location.

Tesla HPWC - Only $1200 plus tax and also charge at 20 kW. I have no knowledge about these being used in public spaces except in Tesla SC's or parking lots like in Yorkdale. Can these be installed outside? Would we be able to install at a Tim Hortons or MacDonalds location? Downside is only Teslas would be able to use it.


In terms of funding it, we thought about creating a EV club for the island of NL and perhaps splitting the costs and taking donations. Even if we had 10 people split the cost that wouldn't be too unreasonable. Also, maybe we could see if any other Tesla owners who are thinking of visiting NL sometime in the future would like to throw in $25-50 towards the installation.

We were contacted by Tesla Motors today to help give suggestions for a Eastern Canada tour they are thinking about doing within the next 6 months of NB, NS, and NL. We are more than happy to help and will provide as much assistance as we could and I just wanted to share as I think eastern Canada is primed for EV adoption just like the west coast and central.

Anyways, just our thoughts and would love to get other peoples thoughts on the matter as I know there a several people on this form who are either interested in visiting NL in their Tesla or who are from NL and looking to buy a Tesla. Not sure if this should be broken into a different thread or not as it was mostly about Leafarmer's journey but I'd love to see some discussion on this.

 

[mknox]

In term of which charger, we were thinking either getting the new Sun Country Highway one SCH100 (up to 19.2 kW) or simply a Tesla HPWC. Any thoughts on which would be better.

In a public location, the SCH for sure. I'm starting to sense that folks are considering the Model S as the "one per-center's car" and having a Tesla-specific charger that other EVs can't use would only further that sentiment. Sure a Leaf can't make use of the full 80 amps continuous of the SCH unit, but it can still connect and charge at whatever the Leaf can take.

 

[leafarmer]

Wow -- great to hear Tesla is being proactive about looking for ways to open up eastern Canada. I assume you're familiar with their subsidized HPWC program for hotels...

Destination Charging

I'd suggest J1772 over Tesla, but not necessarily the 100A versions, at least not for Grandfalls-Windsor. Only some Teslas can take advantage of that today, and it means an awkward amount of time waiting, ~5 hours, to continue your trip. My experience is there are just a few kinds of convenient charging stops:

1) Parking at an airport and flying somewhere for a few days, in which case 120V is just fine.
2) Staying overnight, in which case a 10kW J1772 is perfect. It's especially useful when hotels have more than one J1772.
3) Visiting a museum, or somewhere with hiking (like south end of Confederation bridge), where a 20kW J1772 would be useful.
4) Stopping for bathroom, coffee, lunch or dinner. This is Supercharger territory.

With Grandfalls-Windsor right in the middle as your primary recharging stop you're looking for a full charge, so at least in my case I'd plan to stay overnight. I think hotels have an incentive to make sure their chargers require an overnight stay for full effect -- that's a big deal when it comes to justifying their installation. If the costs were similar, a hotel would much rather install a pair of 10kW chargers than a single 20kW charger.

If you do come up with a plan please let me know. I'd be happy to contribute.

 

[Mayhemm]

Thanks for the info guys and it all makes sense now. So while these CS-90s are good, they are not great and not fully taking advantage of our twin chargers as they can only charge the car at <15 kW.

SCH, like Tesla and other EV-related businesses, advertise the "ideal" or "max" capability of their charging stations. A CS-100 is advertised at 250V/80A or 20kW, but almost never achieves this. As has been mentioned above, commercial businesses (where the bulk of these chargers are placed) use 3-phase 208V service, which essentially drops the CS-100 to a 17kW charger (or even less when voltage reduction due to service load is factored in)

It was for this reason, my father and I, were discussing about the possibility of getting a new public charger installed in Grandfalls-Windsor that would be able to supply Tesla's with 20 kW.

We think Grandfalls-Windsor is the perfect location because it is the most central town with a large population (fifth on the island). It is 428 km from St. John's and 478 km from Port Aux Basque (where the ferry from NS lands on the west coast). This would greatly help travelling across the island or even if folks would like to come out from St. John's to explore central Newfoundland.

We were thinking about maybe installing one of these chargers at the Tim Hortons or MacDonalds in Grandfalls which is right there on the main strip of town.

In term of which charger, we were thinking either getting the new Sun Country Highway one SCH100 (up to 19.2 kW) or simply a Tesla HPWC. Any thoughts on which would be better.

Sun Country SCH100 - Standalone charging station thats been used in public spaces everywhere. $2349 plus tax. The J1772 connector will allow not only Tesla's to use it but other EV's as well, making the benefit to others. Although not sure which vehicles would be able to benefit from this fast charger in this location.

Tesla HPWC - Only $1200 plus tax and also charge at 20 kW. I have no knowledge about these being used in public spaces except in Tesla SC's or parking lots like in Yorkdale. Can these be installed outside? Would we be able to install at a Tim Hortons or MacDonalds location? Downside is only Teslas would be able to use it.

This would be beyond awesome! My sister lives in St. Albans (~180km south of Grand Falls-Windsor), so the GFW stop is the last one I get before a big gap. The discovery that the currently-installed GFW station was only 40A contributed to my not being able to make the drive to see her this year. Fortunately, she flew out to SK to see me instead.

IMO, you should save your money and go with the HPWC. Sure, other EVs and their 3kW/6kW chargers won't be able to use it, but GFW to the next charging station in Deer Lake is beyond their range anyway. That just leaves any locals who own EVs to use it, but they should be charging at home and leaving this unit for travelers. Take the $1200 or so extra you would spend on the SCH station and put it toward the install instead.

I realize, however, that this is the non-ambassadorial solution, and as long as the service connection is 240V/80A, there really isn't any difference between the units (except price; can't forget about price). Go with the solution you feel is best. (I believe the voting is currently 2-1)

In terms of funding it, we thought about creating a EV club for the island of NL and perhaps splitting the costs and taking donations. Even if we had 10 people split the cost that wouldn't be too unreasonable. Also, maybe we could see if any other Tesla owners who are thinking of visiting NL sometime in the future would like to throw in $25-50 towards the installation.

Great idea! Set up the club and tell me where to send the money. I'd gladly throw in $100 or so.

We were contacted by Tesla Motors today to help give suggestions for a Eastern Canada tour they are thinking about doing within the next 6 months of NB, NS, and NL. We are more than happy to help and will provide as much assistance as we could and I just wanted to share as I think eastern Canada is primed for EV adoption just like the west coast and central.

I'm glad to hear Tesla is making a push into the Maritimes which, like my home province of Saskatchewan, have been woefully under-served in the EV space up to now. And, other TMC members, please spare me the low-customer-base argument. I've heard it before and it helps nothing.

 

[GSP]

Wow -- great to hear Tesla is being proactive about looking for ways to open up eastern Canada. I assume you're familiar with their subsidized HPWC program for hotels...

Destination Charging

I'd suggest J1772 over Tesla, but not necessarily the 100A versions, at least not for Grandfalls-Windsor. Only some Teslas can take advantage of that today, and it means an awkward amount of time waiting, ~5 hours, to continue your trip. My experience is there are just a few kinds of convenient charging stops:

1) Parking at an airport and flying somewhere for a few days, in which case 120V is just fine.
2) Staying overnight, in which case a 10kW J1772 is perfect. It's especially useful when hotels have more than one J1772.
3) Visiting a museum, or somewhere with hiking (like south end of Confederation bridge), where a 20kW J1772 would be useful.
4) Stopping for bathroom, coffee, lunch or dinner. This is Supercharger territory.

With Grandfalls-Windsor right in the middle as your primary recharging stop you're looking for a full charge, so at least in my case I'd plan to stay overnight. I think hotels have an incentive to make sure their chargers require an overnight stay for full effect -- that's a big deal when it comes to justifying their installation. If the costs were similar, a hotel would much rather install a pair of 10kW chargers than a single 20kW charger.

If you do come up with a plan please let me know. I'd be happy to contribute.

Excellent reasoning. Two charging stations greatly increases the probability of one being available when needed.

>NetZero: Consider installing two 14-50 outlets (40 A on 50 A breaker) for over $1000 less than even a single HPWC. You could raise the money quicker and get them installed right away.

GSP

 

[Mayhemm]

>NetZero: Consider installing two 14-50 outlets (40 A on 50 A breaker) for over $1000 less than even a single HPWC. You could raise the money quicker and get them installed right away.

GSP

While this would indeed allow more people to charge for less money, it's less-than-ideal for those passing through on a roadtrip. It would involve many hours spent charging and/or a hotel stay. Having spent the last month or so getting used to my Model S on roadtrips (and dealing with many a >5 hour charging stop due to slow charging), PLEASE install a high-powered unit. Save the 14-50s for private residences and campgrounds. Personally, when I travel, I like to choose hotels based on when I actually need a rest, not when I'm forced to stop and charge for hours at a slow charger. Makes for a much more pleasant trip.

 

[Eco Capitalist]

We were contacted by Tesla Motors today to help give suggestions for a Eastern Canada tour they are thinking about doing within the next 6 months of NB, NS, and NL. We are more than happy to help and will provide as much assistance as we could and I just wanted to share as I think eastern Canada is primed for EV adoption just like the west coast and central.

Very good to hear! An SC in Moncton, at the very exit near Magnetic Hill that leafarmer stopped at, would make commuting between most of the major population centers out there easy!

 

[RiverBrick]

Very good to hear! An SC in Moncton, at the very exit near Magnetic Hill that leafarmer stopped at, would make commuting between most of the major population centers out there easy!

Then you would only need three more to link the Atlantic up with the Windsor-Quebec City Corridor's Eastermost SpC in Drummondville. Along the Trans-Canada highway, Levis, Riviere-du-Loup, Woodstock, NB and the Moncton area.

Drummondville-Levis. (136 km) This would allow travel to the Saguenay Lac-St-Jean and Charlevoix regions. There would also be a distant link (360 km) to the planned SpC in Bangor, ME. A highway is replacing large portions of country road in the straight line from Levis to Bangor, so it's a path that will see increased traffic.

Levis-Riviere-du-Loup. (197 km) From RDL, you can go East to Gaspe or the Atlantic provinces, go West to Quebec City or even reach ferries to different points on the North Shore.

Riviere-du-Loup - Woodstock. (288 km) Links with the planned Bangor, ME SpC (210 km) as well as connecting RDL with Fredericton (104 km) and Saint-John (204 km).

Woodstock - Moncton (271 km) From Moncton it is 271 km to Halifax and 165 km to Charlottetown. The ferry to Newfoundland, 467 km distant, would only need a manageable L2 boost en route to be within range.


The one cabinet, two stall Supercharger sites like those popping in Europe would suffice. TM would have to adjust its North America map to acknowledge that Halifax, Sydney, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland exist, though.

 

[Mayhemm]

The one cabinet, two stall Supercharger sites like those popping in Europe would suffice. TM would have to adjust its North America map to acknowledge that Halifax, Sydney, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland exist, though.

And once they've done that, perhaps eastern AB, SK and MB???

Crazy talk, I know.

 

[Doug_G]

Realistically, you're not going to get Superchargers for a long time. There isn't enough population density. I'm assuming you knew that when you bought.

It would be nice, at least, for you guys to see some kind of connection South into the American network; at least that way you could travel across to other parts of Canada via the US.

 

[>NetZero]

No I didn't know about the Destination Charging program Tesla has going but I will submit the application any see if they have any interested in helping out with the costs. Thanks!

I agree with your 4 kinds of charging stops and that it makes sense to match the charging rate to how long you plan to stay there.

However, I would add a either add a 5th one or add to your 3rd one. As Doug_G mentioned, Tesla super chargers will not be coming to Atlantic Canada anytime soon (or MB, SK for that matter). Therefore everyone who owns a Tesla in these locations would hope to have the next best thing when trying to make the long distance trips(I will leave other types of DC fast charging alone for now as I don't see that coming anytime soon either). For example:

In our experience driving across the island of NL last weekend we would have significantly benefited from having a 20 kW charger on our route. Our total trip time was 12 hours with 3.5 hours of that charging as CS-90s - 69 km/hr. We made it to our destination without staying overnight anywhere but the last hour of the trip was in the dark. If we had HPWC to charge at we would have shortened out trip by roughly an hour and would have eliminated any night time driving. For people who aren't familiar with NL driving through rural NL at night is not an ideal situation - We saw 6 moose in a span of 45 minutes at night and almost came close to hitting one who jumped across the road. In addition, in Gander we charged for 2.5 hours with 1 hour spent getting supper, and the rest just sitting in the car waiting for our charge. If we could have just sat there and charge for 30-45 minutes instead of sitting there for 1.5 hours it would have been a much more enjoyable experience.

My point is that for those of us who are not close to superchargers and wont be for sometime, and spent the extra money for the dual chargers (I think most people in Canada went with dual chargers or at least should have), we should be able to maximize the rate at which we charge to make our driving experience as enjoyable as possible.

Wow -- great to hear Tesla is being proactive about looking for ways to open up eastern Canada. I assume you're familiar with their subsidized HPWC program for hotels...

Destination Charging

I'd suggest J1772 over Tesla, but not necessarily the 100A versions, at least not for Grandfalls-Windsor. Only some Teslas can take advantage of that today, and it means an awkward amount of time waiting, ~5 hours, to continue your trip. My experience is there are just a few kinds of convenient charging stops:

1) Parking at an airport and flying somewhere for a few days, in which case 120V is just fine.
2) Staying overnight, in which case a 10kW J1772 is perfect. It's especially useful when hotels have more than one J1772.
3) Visiting a museum, or somewhere with hiking (like south end of Confederation bridge), where a 20kW J1772 would be useful.
4) Stopping for bathroom, coffee, lunch or dinner. This is Supercharger territory.

With Grandfalls-Windsor right in the middle as your primary recharging stop you're looking for a full charge, so at least in my case I'd plan to stay overnight. I think hotels have an incentive to make sure their chargers require an overnight stay for full effect -- that's a big deal when it comes to justifying their installation. If the costs were similar, a hotel would much rather install a pair of 10kW chargers than a single 20kW charger.

If you do come up with a plan please let me know. I'd be happy to contribute.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree Mayhemm, there are many places you could visit in central NL using GFW as the central Hub with a fast charger there.

I am also thinking we should put one in Corner Brook as it will make the trip to/from Port Aux Basque much easier.. can't rely on that CS-60 in Deer Lake.. way too slow. Also, Corner Brook is a popular spot for tourists to visit since it is close to Gros Morne, Humber Valley, Marble Mountain etc.

I am leading toward the HPWC as well, especially if we can get Tesla to subsidize the cost through there Destination Charging program.

This would be beyond awesome! My sister lives in St. Albans (~180km south of Grand Falls-Windsor), so the GFW stop is the last one I get before a big gap. The discovery that the currently-installed GFW station was only 40A contributed to my not being able to make the drive to see her this year. Fortunately, she flew out to SK to see me instead.

IMO, you should save your money and go with the HPWC. Sure, other EVs and their 3kW/6kW chargers won't be able to use it, but GFW to the next charging station in Deer Lake is beyond their range anyway. That just leaves any locals who own EVs to use it, but they should be charging at home and leaving this unit for travelers. Take the $1200 or so extra you would spend on the SCH station and put it toward the install instead.

 

[Mayhemm]

I agree Mayhemm, there are many places you could visit in central NL using GFW as the central Hub with a fast charger there.

I am also thinking we should put one in Corner Brook as it will make the trip to/from Port Aux Basque much easier.. can't rely on that CS-60 in Deer Lake.. way too slow. Also, Corner Brook is a popular spot for tourists to visit since it is close to Gros Morne, Humber Valley, Marble Mountain etc.

I am leading toward the HPWC as well, especially if we can get Tesla to subsidize the cost through there Destination Charging program.

Sounds great! The more locations the better! As I mentioned earlier, I'm willing to contribute funding to any charger you put in. My only condition is that they be 100A/240V fast-charging units. Obviously, if we can get some assistance from Tesla as well, it would be even better.

Realistically, you're not going to get Superchargers for a long time. There isn't enough population density. I'm assuming you knew that when you bought.

It would be nice, at least, for you guys to see some kind of connection South into the American network; at least that way you could travel across to other parts of Canada via the US.

Yeah, I'd pretty much accepted that I would be without local Supercharging for much (if not all) of my Model S ownership when I decided to buy it. I did it anyway, since I assumed there would be Level 2 charging available. Not Supercharging by a long shot, but adequate for infrequent travel.

Thanks to Sun Country Highway, that is largely the case now, but I still would welcome at least one Supercharger in either province (MB or SK), if only to connect them to the greater Supercharging network. Perhaps when the currently-planned routes are complete, Tesla will consider doing that. Even one of the 2-stall units they're deploying in Europe would be a big help.