Drove Audi e-tron Today

[dk10438]

And yet my Model X drives like a sports car...

then you haven't driven many sports cars. I've just took delivery on a P100D and it's fast off the line but it's really just a one trick pony. In the canyons you can really feel the weight. You just can't ignore physics and weight is the enemy of all sports cars....

I test drove the E Tron and for what it is, it's not bad. Interior was nice and fitment was good, befitting an 80k car. But it was too slow for me and projected range was only 205 and you know what that means in real life! Access to the supercharging network and AP really did it for me so I went out and bought the Tesla next day and I've been really happy with it. Thought I'd miss my GTR but now I wonder why it took so long for me to jump on the EV bandwagon. (For those that are wondering, the GTR was pretty damn heavy too but they made the best of it and it's a featherweight compared to the MS).

 

[alloverx]

Saw an etron today from the back as it pulled into the parking garage and yes it looked like an Audi SUV

 

[VQTRVA]

Pretty much what I saw on the Porsche forum too. Long time Porsche owners say how nice my Tesla drives compare to Porsche, how the Taycan is over-priced, and how I will cancel my Taycan reservation and buy a Model Y (I think he meant a Model 3) performance.

We've been hearing Tesla competitors are coming all those years. Now they came and we realize there is still no Tesla competitor. It had years of head start and was moving fast. Very hard for others to catch up now.
.

I saw this too on the Taycan forums. Surprising that a few posts from diehard Porsche owners are not impressed with pre-production details about the Taycan.

Esp. price vs. performance.

Early days but all these years & money spent to develop cars possibly 2-3 years behind.

 

[Shock-On-T]

I own a model 3 but I prefer the traditional boxy shape of an SUV and to that end I drove an Audi e-Tron Quattro today. I was so disappointed and will cancel my order. It seems to me that the overall appearance, fit and paint for this $80,000 vehicle are better than my Model 3. That said the driving experience was extremely poor in comparison, it drove like a truck and from my perspective the user interface isn't nearly as intuitive. I guess I could go on about it but suffice to say it isn't anything like my experience driving my M3. Certainly made me appreciate Tesla even more.

To be fair, I have noticed that difference even in the ICE world.
I had a 7 seat SUV for a few years, and whenever I would rent a Corolla or some equally boring hatch or sedan on a work trip I would appreciate how much nicer the smaller/lower car drove.
Basically, SUVs drive like crap, just very convenient in lots of other ways, but driving ain’t one of them.

 

[CarlK]

then you haven't driven many sports cars. I've just took delivery on a P100D and it's fast off the line but it's really just a one trick pony. In the canyons you can really feel the weight. You just can't ignore physics and weight is the enemy of all sports cars....

I have to disagree on that. The Model S may not be exactly a sports car but it comes as close as any sports sedan could get. And physics, low and centrually distrubuted weight, indeed made it that way. I kept my 6 speed Cayman S, arguably the best handling sports car in the industry, for two years after I got my S. I still always took the S for weekend drives over Santa Cruz mountains becase it's way easier and more fun to negotiate those steep curvy roads. You can concentrate on the steering wheel without needing to worry about the rpm or how the car would react when you step on the pedal.

I saw this too on the Taycan forums. Surprising that a few posts from diehard Porsche owners are not impressed with pre-production details about the Taycan.

Esp. price vs. performance.

Early days but all these years & money spent to develop cars possibly 2-3 years behind.

Not too surprising though. It benchmarked the 2012 vintage Model S and was not even able to catch up with it in many aspects. Porsche always had the advantage of being the leader which you can make some mistakes or have some shortcomings and still have time to recover. This is the first time it is the follower. Anything not up to the standard the leader established will show. It's not easy to be a follower. Just ask those Japanese brands.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Had my X at ~135 mph for a stretch in the California desert last week. It drove pretty well, but the steering and suspension felt a tad loose. (Suspension is set to LOW.) This is in comparison to my other ICE cars, a BMW X3 and MB E550. Those have the "sport mode" function which tightens everything up at speed. I know Tesla adjusts height, but it would be ice if steering and suspension tightened u at speed... Still pretty damn fun to drive...

Autobahn is a given for top-end German cars, they have to be designed with high speed driving in mind.
Out here in the anglosphere not so much...

 

[CarlK]

Had my X at ~135 mph for a stretch in the California desert last week. It drove pretty well, but the steering and suspension felt a tad loose. (Suspension is set to LOW.) This is in comparison to my other ICE cars, a BMW X3 and MB E550. Those have the "sport mode" function which tightens everything up at speed. I know Tesla adjusts height, but it would be ice if steering and suspension tightened u at speed... Still pretty damn fun to drive...

Your Model X does not have comfort/standard/sports steering settings?

 

[dk10438]

I have to disagree on that. The Model S may not be exactly a sports car but it comes as close as any sports sedan could get. And physics, low and centrually distrubuted weight, indeed made it that way. I kept my 6 speed Cayman S, arguably the best handling sports car in the industry, for two years after I got my S. I still always took the S for weekend drives over Santa Cruz mountains becase it's way easier and more fun to negotiate those steep curvy roads. You can concentrate on the steering wheel without needing to worry about the rpm or how the car would react when you step on the pedal.



Not too surprising though. It benchmarked the 2012 vintage Model S and was not even able to catch up with it in many aspects. Porsche always had the advantage of being the leader which you can make some mistakes or have some shortcomings and still have time to recover. This is the first time it is the follower. Anything not up to the standard the leader established will show. It's not easy to be a follower. Just ask those Japanese brands.

Hmm,
I see your S is the P85+ and I'm wondering if that's the difference.... Yours has coils instead of air suspension? And supposedly the best handling S? Air suspension is a little mushy for me and I drive it in the low setting to mitigate the half shaft shudder. I've read that the low setting actually is the softest setting since it has the least amount of pressure in the shocks. Or maybe it's because I'm still on a stock 245 tire setup and they just aren't that sticky, especially for a 4900 lb car.

Anyway, not bashing the MS since I really like it. Just saying that it doesn't feel like a sports car, at least not compared to what I've had in the past (Lotus Elise, Mini Cooper S, Boxtster S, 997 C4S, GTR)....

 

[dfwatt]

You can simulate an Audi in your Model 3 by switching the driving mode from Normal to Arrogant.

yeah and then you have to set your energy consumption from Normal to Extra Piggy

 

[CarlK]

Hmm,
I see your S is the P85+ and I'm wondering if that's the difference.... Yours has coils instead of air suspension? And supposedly the best handling S? Air suspension is a little mushy for me and I drive it in the low setting to mitigate the half shaft shudder. I've read that the low setting actually is the softest setting since it has the least amount of pressure in the shocks. Or maybe it's because I'm still on a stock 245 tire setup and they just aren't that sticky, especially for a 4900 lb car.

Anyway, not bashing the MS since I really like it. Just saying that it doesn't feel like a sports car, at least not compared to what I've had in the past (Lotus Elise, Mini Cooper S, Boxtster S, 997 C4S, GTR)....

Yes the "+" has improved suspension over the standard one. However that "+" option was dropped when Tesla released dual motor models and discountinued the RWD performance model. Some say the new model has the same "+" suspension as standard feature but Tesla never confirmed it. I do have 21" staggered summer tires that should help. Although tires are still the weakest link of the heavy car. There is little body roll when making fast turns but tires will always be the first to give up.

 

[nipsip]

Range? Probably the most important feature. Also, where in the USA is the charging network with Tesla type superchargers? Absolutely essential if you want to go on a trip that is greater than ~50% of the range? IMO looks like it is a very expensive around town/commuter car with probably less than a 100-mile one-way range. Don't see many of these sold without a vast supercharging network that rivals Tesla especially on the West coast where we love electric cars. Just on the block where I live, there are 6 Teslas. My neighbor routinely drives his Model S 6 hours to LA with no issues. How can you do that with this car?
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REPLY

 

[RogerHScott]

yeah and then you have to set your energy consumption from Normal to Extra Piggy

Isn't that accomplished by using "binary pedal modulation": stomp the accelerator, stomp the break?

 

[milleron]

For all the very, very good reasons enumerated in this thread, I like to say that a number of people will buy the e-tron -- those who are willing to pay US$80,000 for a 4-circle badge on their prow and a few more for whom the most important part of a car is the quality of the upholstery. They'll sell the first 10,000 easily, after which all the rest of the rational buyers will be looking at that list of reasons to buy a Tesla, and the demand for e-trons will plummet as 95% of that majority of buyers opt for a Tesla. In Europe, it might be different, but in the US, price, dismal range, dismal economy, lackluster performance, and the lack of a Supercharging network all could be deal breakers individually. Collectively, the decision against the e-tron will be so easy that Audi will have to go back to the drawing board. Like Elon said [to paraphrase], "As of now, there's still not a car in existence that's better than the 2012 Model S. Still waiting."

 

[ramasubr]

I own a model 3 but I prefer the traditional boxy shape of an SUV and to that end I drove an Audi e-Tron Quattro today. I was so disappointed and will cancel my order. It seems to me that the overall appearance, fit and paint for this $80,000 vehicle are better than my Model 3. That said the driving experience was extremely poor in comparison, it drove like a truck and from my perspective the user interface isn't nearly as intuitive. I guess I could go on about it but suffice to say it isn't anything like my experience driving my M3. Certainly made me appreciate Tesla even more.

I have a Tesla Model S75D (dec 2018) and just picked up an E-tron for my wife a few weeks back. On the road they were both very similar in price in the specs i got @ around $95k. They are really different cars and I don't think the brief comments about how it drives above do it justice.

Don't get me wrong... I love my Tesla and it's the right car for me but the Audi is right for my wife who is not an early adopter and gadget person. The Audi has really been created to provide an absolute first class ride (rides much better than the S - although I have 21 inch turbines which does not help ride quality on the Tesla) and mimics a gas car when you drive it. For example if coasts and does not re-generate unless you use the steering wheel paddles or start braking - even if you choose "efficient regen" in the set-up. Interior quality is also much higher in the Audi vs Tesla. On the other hand, the Tesla driving aids - particularly Autopilot is heads and shoulders above the Audi driving aids which are largely just passive safety aids. Again, I love navigate on autopilot... my wife hates it. I do take exception that the Audi does not have auto parking (it's not an available option). My 2013 Merc 550 GL had it!!

I have seen a lot of write ups about the limited range of the Aud. I wanted to provide some real world context. The Audi is rated at around 206 miles with its 95KW battery (which can only be charged to around 88% - so really 84kw for the 206 miles) vs the Tesla 75Kw for 250 miles. I think it is more important to look at what watts per mile you achieve. To make the mileage as quoted by Tesla you need to to achieve 300w/mile (75Kw / 250 miles). That figure is 407 w/mile for the Audi after taking into account their restrictions on charging. After 679 miles in the Audi it has averaged 496 w/mile in nearly 100% city driving. The Tesla has averaged 417 w/miles over around 2,400 miles with mostly city driving - it has probably done 200 - 300 miles of highway driving on a few short trips. Given the 84kw vs 75kw battery sizes (1.12x ratio) and usage being 1.19x between the Audi and Tesla - real world range is very similar. In fact I only usually charge my Tesla battery to around 80% - 60kw. At the usage I have averaged that's a real world range of 144miles. Even at 88% (to compare to the Audi more evenly) that would be a real world range of 158 miles vs the Audi 84Kw @ 496 w/mile giving a real world range of 169 miles. As you can see, depending on how much fully charge your Tesla battery (given Elon gives your the flexibility to go to 100%) real world range is very similar. I also think the Audi will average out to around 450 w/mile after a couple more months.

I have not taken either on any really long drives but it is clear that the Tesla charging network where I am (East Coast in CT) is much more established. Wolkswagen is spending a lot to catch up with its Electrify America network but right now I see a few 50kw chargers near me - definitely no 150kw yet.

 

[Fred42]

I have a Tesla Model S75D (dec 2018) and just picked up an E-tron for my wife a few weeks back. On the road they were both very similar in price in the specs i got @ around $95k. They are really different cars and I don't think the brief comments about how it drives above do it justice.

Don't get me wrong... I love my Tesla and it's the right car for me but the Audi is right for my wife who is not an early adopter and gadget person. The Audi has really been created to provide an absolute first class ride (rides much better than the S - although I have 21 inch turbines which does not help ride quality on the Tesla) and mimics a gas car when you drive it. For example if coasts and does not re-generate unless you use the steering wheel paddles or start braking - even if you choose "efficient regen" in the set-up. Interior quality is also much higher in the Audi vs Tesla. On the other hand, the Tesla driving aids - particularly Autopilot is heads and shoulders above the Audi driving aids which are largely just passive safety aids. Again, I love navigate on autopilot... my wife hates it. I do take exception that the Audi does not have auto parking (it's not an available option). My 2013 Merc 550 GL had it!!

I have seen a lot of write ups about the limited range of the Aud. I wanted to provide some real world context. The Audi is rated at around 206 miles with its 95KW battery (which can only be charged to around 88% - so really 84kw for the 206 miles) vs the Tesla 75Kw for 250 miles. I think it is more important to look at what watts per mile you achieve. To make the mileage as quoted by Tesla you need to to achieve 300w/mile (75Kw / 250 miles). That figure is 407 w/mile for the Audi after taking into account their restrictions on charging. After 679 miles in the Audi it has averaged 496 w/mile in nearly 100% city driving. The Tesla has averaged 417 w/miles over around 2,400 miles with mostly city driving - it has probably done 200 - 300 miles of highway driving on a few short trips. Given the 84kw vs 75kw battery sizes (1.12x ratio) and usage being 1.19x between the Audi and Tesla - real world range is very similar. In fact I only usually charge my Tesla battery to around 80% - 60kw. At the usage I have averaged that's a real world range of 144miles. Even at 88% (to compare to the Audi more evenly) that would be a real world range of 158 miles vs the Audi 84Kw @ 496 w/mile giving a real world range of 169 miles. As you can see, depending on how much fully charge your Tesla battery (given Elon gives your the flexibility to go to 100%) real world range is very similar. I also think the Audi will average out to around 450 w/mile after a couple more months.

I have not taken either on any really long drives but it is clear that the Tesla charging network where I am (East Coast in CT) is much more established. Wolkswagen is spending a lot to catch up with its Electrify America network but right now I see a few 50kw chargers near me - definitely no 150kw yet.

Thanks for the comparison.
I wonder how the ride of a Raven S with 19" wheels compares with the e-tron. Maybe someone will be able to report.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

And yet my Model X drives like a sports car...

If you think a Model X drives like a sports car you`ve probably never driven a sports car...
A model X sure can brute force sprints, but that`s about it.
You can`t cheat physics......

 

[dfwatt]

I have a Tesla Model S75D (dec 2018) and just picked up an E-tron for my wife a few weeks back. On the road they were both very similar in price in the specs i got @ around $95k. They are really different cars and I don't think the brief comments about how it drives above do it justice.

Don't get me wrong... I love my Tesla and it's the right car for me but the Audi is right for my wife who is not an early adopter and gadget person. The Audi has really been created to provide an absolute first class ride (rides much better than the S - although I have 21 inch turbines which does not help ride quality on the Tesla) and mimics a gas car when you drive it. For example if coasts and does not re-generate unless you use the steering wheel paddles or start braking - even if you choose "efficient regen" in the set-up. Interior quality is also much higher in the Audi vs Tesla. On the other hand, the Tesla driving aids - particularly Autopilot is heads and shoulders above the Audi driving aids which are largely just passive safety aids. Again, I love navigate on autopilot... my wife hates it. I do take exception that the Audi does not have auto parking (it's not an available option). My 2013 Merc 550 GL had it!!

I have seen a lot of write ups about the limited range of the Aud. I wanted to provide some real world context. The Audi is rated at around 206 miles with its 95KW battery (which can only be charged to around 88% - so really 84kw for the 206 miles) vs the Tesla 75Kw for 250 miles. I think it is more important to look at what watts per mile you achieve. To make the mileage as quoted by Tesla you need to to achieve 300w/mile (75Kw / 250 miles). That figure is 407 w/mile for the Audi after taking into account their restrictions on charging. After 679 miles in the Audi it has averaged 496 w/mile in nearly 100% city driving. The Tesla has averaged 417 w/miles over around 2,400 miles with mostly city driving - it has probably done 200 - 300 miles of highway driving on a few short trips. Given the 84kw vs 75kw battery sizes (1.12x ratio) and usage being 1.19x between the Audi and Tesla - real world range is very similar. In fact I only usually charge my Tesla battery to around 80% - 60kw. At the usage I have averaged that's a real world range of 144miles. Even at 88% (to compare to the Audi more evenly) that would be a real world range of 158 miles vs the Audi 84Kw @ 496 w/mile giving a real world range of 169 miles. As you can see, depending on how much fully charge your Tesla battery (given Elon gives your the flexibility to go to 100%) real world range is very similar. I also think the Audi will average out to around 450 w/mile after a couple more months.

I have not taken either on any really long drives but it is clear that the Tesla charging network where I am (East Coast in CT) is much more established. Wolkswagen is spending a lot to catch up with its Electrify America network but right now I see a few 50kw chargers near me - definitely no 150kw yet.

Thanks for posting this. Hidden in all those stats is the really stunning number of 496 watt-hrs/mi in city driving(!). We routinely double that number on our two Model 3s around town. Is it really that inefficient? And when you say you can only charge to 88%, even on trips? If so, both of those numbers have Audi in a quite non-competitive position in their first 'serious' EV.

 

[sixela]

Yes and yes. But the car should not be compared to the Model 3, but the Model X. Even the model X is a lot more streamlined than your average Audi, though, although it too has a large frontal section.

Sadly for the E-tron the interior space is a lot smaller than in the X.

E-tron's problem is not the Model 3. It's the Model X, but I can still see someone in Europe pick an E-tron over an X (Tesla's delivery and service experience requires nerves of steel -- even things that end up sorted out take lots of chaos to be sorted out). Plus the European ones are built in Belgium so without them I'd pay even more taxes ;-).

With the local VW importer, things are either flawless or you're completely out of luck ;-) ; it's a different experience (I drove two Audi A6, one of which had a mind-boggingly intermittent problem for far too long, one that would prevent it from starting at 2am in the morning when you wanted to go home). One that many Audi drivers find reassuring, and dealing with Tesla would drive them nuts.

The real problem for the E-tron will be the model Y, though.

 

[dk10438]

If you think a Model X drives like a sports car you`ve probably never driven a sports car...
A model X sure can brute force sprints, but that`s about it.
You can`t cheat physics......

you do realize I said exactly the same thing in post 41 don't you? In the states that's considered plaigirism, LOL
but can't agree more. Weight is the enemy and increasing hp only improves one aspect of the car (acceleration) but weight loss improves just about every dynamic (braking, acceleration, skidpad, etc)

 

[30seconds]

Yes and yes. But the car should not be compared to the Model 3, but the Model X. Even the model X is a lot more streamlined than your average Audi, though, although it too has a large frontal section.

Sadly for the E-tron the interior space is a lot smaller than in the X.

E-tron's problem is not the Model 3. It's the Model X, but I can still see someone in Europe pick an E-tron over an X (Tesla's delivery and service experience requires nerves of steel -- even things that end up sorted out take lots of chaos to be sorted out). Plus the European ones are built in Belgium so without them I'd pay even more taxes ;-).

With the local VW importer, things are either flawless or you're completely out of luck ;-) ; it's a different experience (I drove two Audi A6, one of which had a mind-boggingly intermittent problem for far too long, one that would prevent it from starting at 2am in the morning when you wanted to go home). One that many Audi drivers find reassuring, and dealing with Tesla would drive them nuts.

The real problem for the E-tron will be the model Y, though.

Why? The 3 has very similar interior room to the Audi. The X is massive & has three rows in comparison.