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Dual Chargers in NE?

Discussion in 'New England' started by RDoc, Dec 10, 2014.

  1. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I'm thinking about bagging my model X reservation and getting an 85D so am considering options.

    From what I can see looking at PlugShare and Chargepoint, the number of HPWC or 70A J1772's in New England and Eastern Canada that aren't also near (or at) Superchargers, CHAdeMo and/or SAE Combo plugs is pretty small. It appears that DC fast charging is starting to really get real so I'm wondering if the dual chargers really make sense. I may get an HPWC for home just because the cable is heavier, but I can't see that I'd ever really notice the difference between single and dual chargers at home, I'll just charge at night anyway.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    Dual chargers or not is a long running discussion here. One thing that I can add to most of the previous discussions is that Tesla is really being aggressive with the Destination Charger program. This program makes it very attractive for "Destinations" to install HPWCs. (Hotels, restaurants, malls, etc.)

    Because of this I expect to see many more of them in the future. When the shorter range and more numerous Model 3 comes out, I bet that HPWC's will become much more common. My 2 cents.
     
  3. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Look here instead for the best network of high AMP L2 EVSE's deployed in Canada:
    EV Trip Planner - Sun Country Highway

    This company has done more for EV charging in Canada than any other.
     
  4. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Take a look at the Tesla "Find Us" page and turn off the Show Rooms and Service Centers. That leaves charging options. The big icons are Superchargers, and the little ones are HPWCs, most at 80 Amps. Tesla is getting a lot of these installed.

    It only takes a few times waiting hours longer charging over the life of the car to emotionally justify dual chargers. As many know on TMC, I am a big fan of getting dual chargers. Just do it!
     
  5. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    #5 Rockster, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
    I can't speak to your geographically induced factors, but I've had a dual charger Model S for a year and a single charger loaner for nearly a month. We've missed the dual chargers a number of times. For example, using the car for errands all morning and planning on departing for a Thanksgiving trip in the late afternoon. Recharging the loaner in between errands and departure was annoyingly slow at half the normal charge rate. There have been similar examples over the past month where we really noticed the difference in turnaround time (primarily charging at home) on busy days. We're looking forward to getting our dual charger Model S back soon.
     
  6. skboston

    skboston Member

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    There is no better feeling when you have to go out at night and when you plug in your car says: "2 hours remaining" until 90% charge.

    The extra $1000 you're spending on dual chargers are well worth it in the long run, compared to the price of the car, this convenience is almost free.
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Just because there are few around now, doesn't mean there won't be some next year. (Leaf owners ran into this, many didn't go for the large charge port because there weren't any around when they bought the car. They are now regretting it--some so much that they purchased a new car.) It's more than double the price to add twin chargers later.
     
  8. AlMc

    AlMc 'Senior Moments' member

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    I have a single charger on my P85+ but a 'must have of can afford' addition to the 'D' I have coming is dual chargers. My family lives in Mass and Maine. The dual chargers will come in handy with visits out away from SC areas.
     
  9. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    While I agree with all the theoretical arguments for dual chargers, in two years of ownership I've never actually had a situation where it mattered. Of course this is in part because I've never had >40A charging at home (both my former Boston house and my Maine summer place have only 100A master panels, so running 80A simply wasn't an option). With my move to Portland, though, I would order twin chargers because we have far more HPWC destination chargers in ME/NH, and that number looks like it's growing rapidly.
     
  10. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Thinking altruistically, if you have dual chargers you can occupy a high amperage AC charger for less time, which makes an HPWC better value for the site owner.
     
  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Dual Chargers are absolutely worth it now, and more so in the future as more higher amperage L2 charging points become available.
     
  12. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    I'll dissent. I've had exactly two times in 20 months where twin chargers would have been useful. Once in Bethesda where the two SC spots were taken and I sipped through a 15-40 rather than an HPWC, and once (sort of) in Ontario. I was overnighting anyway so the 80A wasn't really necessary but I might have decided not to overnight if I could have gotten a faster charge. When buying an $80-90k car it's really easy to rationalize an extra $1k here or an extra $2k there given the overall price. But it's still extra money. Just evaluate your travel patterns and turn around times you need. I'm fortunate that the Darien SC is 20 miles away so the one time I needed to get to the airport quickly I simply stopped for 15 mins at the SC.
     
  13. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Interesting comments, thanks.

    Looking at the Sun Country locations it does seem that a trip out to Nova Scotia would be a good time to have dual chargers. I'm not sure about places like Quebec since there are quite a few CHAdeMo stations around (assuming such an adapter happens). Most HPWC destination chargers do seem to be clients only at places like hotels, so I'm not sure they really are much help. Frankly, I don't see the point to a HPWC at a hotel. If you're staying overnight an ordinary 240V 50A outlet is quite sufficient.

    I suppose there is an argument though that any options to make charging easier may make sense in view of that being the major issue with any BEV. My suspicion though is that DC charging, Supercharger, CHAdeMo and SAE Combo is where there's going to be a lot of growth.
     
  14. gnychis

    gnychis Member

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    I decided for the dual chargers and they have been nice in a squeeze when I've needed to use someone's HPWC with 80 amps, and in the future I think it'll make more sense also. An HPWC at a hotel does make a difference as you could charge multiple cars on that same charger in the same amount of time, rather than just 1. Having a valet swap the cars out for two guests, or working it out with the other guest.
     
  15. tliving

    tliving Member

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    When I got my Model S I saw dual chargers as a future proof option. Also the HPWC at home was more expensive back then. But still i've used them quite a bit at the local Tesla Store (Natick). Also the "Destination chargers" that Tesla is on a binge on are all HPWC so dual chargers would help there too -- too bad they only let you use them if you're staying the night though. To me the cost is worth the potential time savings and adding after the fact is a lot more expensive.
     
  16. PeterK

    PeterK Model S Owner

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    I got the dual chargers and HPWC because I didn't want to one day return from a trip and need to leave on another one, but be constrained from doing so because of the charging speed at home. Avoiding complaints from family members alone would make it worthwhile. In the event, I have twice had fairly tight trips where a Plugshare or Service Center HPWC were key (see Don't try this at home...), and on a few occasions when I needed to leave home on relatively short notice I was able to charge up quickly. Also I believe the Mt. Washington Auto Road charger is a fast charger, which helped when I went there.

    And to echo others' posts, it does seem like 80A Destination Charging HPWCs are popping up all over, and while most have the overnight stay requirement, I've heard of several that allow a charge for $10, especially for those eating at the hotel restaurant. I'm fine with a fee - they need to recoup their investment and expenses - it's the access and charging speed that's critical to me.
     
  17. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    When people tell you that they would have never needed 80 amps AC before, that to me is not really insightful. As EV owners, we are obviously planning our routes and aware of charging options. If you only had 40 amps AC and Superchargers available to you, you would not make plans based on needing 80 amps. The real question is if you were not able to take your Tesla on a certain trip because you could not utilize 80 amps, or would more options have been available if you could take 80 amps?

    The fundamental reality is that dual chargers make more destinations and more routes more accessible. DC charging sites will reach a peak, AC options will probably expand for the long-term future.
     
  18. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #18 linkster, Dec 15, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2014
    I sure wish i was a TMC member when we configured the P85 back in ’12 so that Cott could have "edumacated" us back then about duals. Instead, we had to pay $3,600 to retrofit. As Cott said, Just dual it!
     
  19. leafarmer

    leafarmer Member

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    I drive a single charger S85 and which I had the dual charger. That being said, it's rare that you'll actually get the full 20kW. Of the three dozen or so public New England and Canada J1772 chargers I had the chance to use last summer, only one had the ability to deliver a continuous 80A at 240V. Most were limited to 60A continuous or less, and many were 208V. I think a reasonable expectation is you'll average a 1.5x charge rate improvement with dual chargers.
     
  20. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    Bought it with my Model S, when ordered in December of 2012. I consider it a more important option than paint protection (which I didn't get), or the Pano Roof (which I did get, and hasn't been used as much as the dual chargers). Anytime you can speed up your charging time for $1,500 one time fee, it's worthwhile. Mount Washington Auto Road is a 70A 208V J-1772 EVSE, still faster than a single 40A charger would have been. I also built my own OpenEVSE at home for $750 or so, so I use it everyday, I start my charging early in the AM, and it's done when I go to work.. Leaves my SoC lower overnight, and tops it off just before I use it (even though I only charge to %80 anyway). In my new house, I bought one of the eBay HPWC's as well, and it's wired for 80A 240V, when charging at the full 80A, the voltage only drops down to 236V, so getting most of the capability of the dual charger setup... (full capability requires 250V @ 80A)

    Do I need dual chargers? nope, but I consider it an important option, one I would not order another Model S or Model X without.
     

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