TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Dual chargers not present on configurator.

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by JDS, Mar 21, 2015.

  1. JDS

    JDS New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    UK
    I am considering purchasing a Tesla later this year. At present I am about to rewire my house and will take the opportunity to include wiring for charging equipment.

    I have read various opinions regarding whether dual chargers are worth the additional cost. I have just looked on the Tesla configurator after learning of various updates to the Model S and noted the option for dual chargers is no longer present.

    So I am wondering does anybody have any thoughts about this development that may be relevant to a potential owner?
     
  2. Seattle

    Seattle Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    219
    Location:
    Bellevue, WA
    Dual chargers used to cost a lot more if you didn't order them with your car (originally the difference was something like $1500 vs $2000 later, then they went up to something like 1.5k vs $3000). During the past few months, they decided to make them cost the same whether you got it at manufacturing time or installed after the sale ($2000). Then they finally said lets make them all after sale items. I think this could save some time for them in the factory, as its no longer a factory defined option. It is probably good for customers because they don't have to decide about this ahead of time.

    Many people never need a dual charger, especially if they don't drive a bunch and need to recharge immediately. They made a similar choice on the high powered wall charger - used to be cheaper if purchased with car, now its the same price either way.
     
  3. Rluner

    Rluner Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    North West UK
    I understand you now have to request dual chargers are enabled after the order is placed.

    I personally am very happy with choosing dual chargers and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them or choose them again. However with the new CHAdeMO adaptor available, most users seem to recommend this which is also a lot cheaper and faster.

    If your in the south of the UK and stay there, the supercharger network should be all you need without either.
     
  4. JDS

    JDS New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    UK
    Thank you for the responses.

    I frequent the north of the UK, given the lack of superchargers at present I think there is still a case for dual chargers given the area the vehicle will be used in. Hopefully CHAdeMO availability will increase by the time I sign on the dotted line.
     
  5. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,239
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    #5 miimura, Mar 21, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
    Is it now established as fact that UK cars are all built with dual charger hardware and the ability to charge at over 11kW is an option enabled in software?
     
  6. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Do you have a 3 phase electrical supply at home?

    Currently, the maximum either configuration will charge at is 7kW from a single phase supply*

    I agree with Rluner, it's still worthwhile considering if you are in certain parts of the UK, where Superchargers are still rare. But if you can get a CHAdeMO adapter it's much less of an issue.

    However, Tesla's website has recently been updated to show the maximum charge rate is 16A from a single phase type 2 socket when you've only bought single chargers. AFAIK there are no UK cars yet that have been shipped with physical singles to prove or disprove this is the case (all UK cars to date have been dual, but software capped). IF Tesla push this through, which would be very unpopular, it means dual chargers go from being a nice to have to an essential option for the UK market IMHO. (And as Tesla make far more margin on options than the base cars there is financial motivation for them to take this approach in my view.)

    The EU cars have physically shipped with single chargers, but because they get the UMC, not a type-2 cable, this hasn't been a problem for home charging, but they are capped to 3kW on public points, which did cause a bit of a fuss.

    There are hardware changes Tesla could make to the car to mitigate this, but until we see some new UK cars with only physical singles, we can't guarantee this.



    * There are ways round this. Special Type 2 sockets/cables, the UMC, or in extreme cases a custom EVSE. There is a french owner that has got a single phase 64A to work successfully, after building his own custom EVSE, though he did have Dual Chargers! However these options do come with downsides.
     
  7. Brunel

    Brunel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    SMAC, interestingly the spec page on the UK site before you click order still shows:


    • "11 kW capable Universal Mobile Connector, IEC 60309 5 PIN Red 16A/3-phase (400 V) or IEC 60309 3 PIN Blue 32A/single-phase (240 V) adapter"

    Now I will admit it is silent on having dual or single chargers. If I am forced to only get 16 amp then all it will do is force me to use the Supercharger more since my 200+ daily return commute will leave me empty. It does help that the nearest SC is only 4 miles away.
     
  8. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    @Brunel
    Interesting, maybe they are predicting an end to the OLEV home funding?

    IIRC it was capped at 50k cars, and they are selling boat loads of Outlanders and eTron/Golf GTE's.

    You can still get a 7kW charge with the UMC, just not Type 2, so you will need a blue commando socket installed at home. It is more of a problem for destination charging.

    The UMC is an odd device as it effectively powers 2 phase pins of the Type-2, with the same phase. IMHO this isn't a great idea, because it's out of spec, and if you plug a UMC it into something expecting a proper phased supply (i.e. a Zoe) things WILL go pop. It should be mechanically / electrically be impossible to do this, but unfortunately it isn't :(
     
  9. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Most likely explanation for that is that it's been incorrect since last May when they changed their policy. The "spec" page for the car has never been particularly well internationalised - IIRC it still talks about 40A and 80A current limits for charging which are a North American thing.

    If it had been recently and deliberately added then a) they'd have changed all the other places where it says you get a Type 2 cable, and b) it would say that you'll get a British 3 pin plug adaptor too.
     
  10. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    They have changed the website now. I think you are right, it is now very explicit saying 7kW at home. Probably means the UK cars still ship dual, but software capped.

    They still have the old proviso text for dual chargers on the first tab, but the old spinning time/cost calculator thing has gone, and in its place a simple table that does not indicate a limitation based on number of chargers (all the way up to 22kW)

    Will be interesting to see when the first non-dual orders under the new system get delivered.
     
  11. Grandunion

    Grandunion Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Sarratt
    I know i'm prone to being confused but help me out again. So, with my un-tethered single phase 32amp podpoint, will i now have to buy my own type 2 cable to charge at home? I need a cable about 10m long and as we are collecting this coming saturday i might order in advance. Any thoughts chaps?
     
  12. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    If you need a 10m one I'd order it anyway. ;)
     
  13. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If you have an untethered point then in all likelihood you will quickly tire of unpacking and repacking the cable that's supplied with the car from its storage location in the boot. Also it's a heavy and fairly stiff cable because it's 3 phase capable, and it's only 7m long so if you need a 10m reach you'll need to buy a longer one in any case (Type 2 cables can never be joined together).

    The most important thing about any home EV charging setup is that you make it as convenient as possible - you're probably going to plug your car in every evening, and unplug it every morning, for the rest of your (driving) life, so I would invest in making it effortless. A lightweight (i.e. single phase), flexible, 10m long, Type 2 cable is definitely worth having.
     
  14. Grandunion

    Grandunion Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Sarratt
    10m 32amp type 2 m to type 2 f single phase right ? cheers chaps:rolleyes::wink:
     
  15. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yes, correct.
     

Share This Page