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Dual chargers

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by mikeg561, May 22, 2015.

  1. mikeg561

    mikeg561 Member

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    Dual Chargers are only helpful at home using the wall charger, correct?
    I.e. You will get the same charge rate at a supercharger weather you have single or dual chargers on the car.....

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  2. beeeerock

    beeeerock Active Member

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    Dual chargers will allow you to charge at 80 amps, 240 volts. You can get this at J1772 chargers if they're enabled to provide that much current (as far as I understand). Or at your home, if you've got that much available.

    Superchargers don't use your onboard chargers - that's why they're so fast. Superchargers pump in DC, bypassing the onboard chargers (which are required to rectify AC from the plug cable to DC for the batteries). So the onboard chargers (one or two) will have no impact on Supercharging.
     
  3. Scotty

    Scotty Member

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    Correct. Superchargers are Direct Current chargers, and bypass the on-board AC charger(s) and feed the energy directly to the battery pack.

    Scotty
     
  4. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Dual chargers (which are for AC charging) are not relevant for Supercharging (which is DC).

    Dual chargers come in handy any place where there's a HPWC (the "wall charger") or even a high-amp (> 40 A) J1772 station. Could reduce your charging time by upto half.
     
  5. napabill

    napabill Active Member

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    Many of the "Destination Chargers" Tesla is installing are 80 amps. Also at the retail locations they often have 80 amp setups.
     
  6. mikeg561

    mikeg561 Member

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    OK, please excuse the noob question...... Where are there high-amp J1772 staions? Are there any (many?) public stations like that?


     
  7. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    Home or away. In addition to using the J1772 adapter for EVSE's that put out up to 80 amps (70 is common in Canada), more and more hotels and businesses are installing HPWC's:

    Tesla Model S HPWC Destination Chargers Popping Up Across U.S.

    Tesla has also added HPWC locations to their Supercharger maps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Check plugshare.com for where you travel. The description of each EVSE will state the amps.
     
  8. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Here are a couple of examples of High Amp L2 (HAL2) charging:

    • Most of the Sun Country Highway J1772's are 70 or 80 Amps. Although started in Canada, there are several in California and Arizona near you: Sun Country Highway Map
    • I helped install 70 Amp J1772's in Pagosa Springs and Salida, CO: 4 Corners EV Charging
     
  9. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    They help anywhere there is a greater than 40 amp A/C charge point. This means HPWC or high amp J1772. They don't help with Supercharging, CHAdeMO, 14-50 or low amp J1772.
     
  10. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    #10 Larry Chanin, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    Hi Mike,

    As others have said Dual Chargers are useful anywhere you want to charge at over 40 amps.

    Here's some maps of California that illustrate the point.

    HPWC in California Public.jpg
    These are the public Tesla High Power Wall Connectors


    HPWC in California Private.jpg
    These are the High Power Wall Connectors in private homes of people willing to share them with travelers.


    These don't include the high capacity J1772 chargers that are also available.

    Many of the public chargers are located at resorts and hotels. If they are located at a destination that you are planning on visiting, they can be more convenient than Supercharging.

    Larry
     
  11. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    One thing to keep in mind though about destination HPWC sites is that most of them are at inns or hotels where the typical stay is long enough to get a full charge from a 40A single charger.
     
  12. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    True, but many resorts and hotels will permit you to charge for free if you dine at one of their restaurants. If you stay for a leisurely dinner you can put on quite a few miles with dual chargers.

    Larry
     
  13. m6bigdog

    m6bigdog Member

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    #13 m6bigdog, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    +1,
    IMHO, Dual chargers are a must - that is a 58 mi/hr. charge rate or a 174 mi. charge in 3 hours.

    Tesla currently suggesting that the Universal Mobile Connector and a single charger is good enough since the Supercharger network buildup.

    BUT, that ignores the fact that the MS spends more time at a destination than on the road and getting a faster 20kw destination charge allows twice as many MSs to charge at the same destination. This will become a big deal when the population of MSs increases to a point where there are MSs in a Queue at the HPWC charge station.
    I vote, all dual charger MSs should have HPWC priority and all single charger cars should stay at the back of the line...

    Unfortunately the Dual Charger is no longer available as a factory installed option due to customer complaints and some misunderstanding about its usefulness when you can't use it every day at home with a HPWC or with the Universal Mobile Connector.

    Forget range anxiety, I am more concerned with long charging times and 10Kw is twice as long when you could be on the road!!
     
  14. SW2Fiddler

    SW2Fiddler Bannd Member

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    #14 SW2Fiddler, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    +1 to the big dog for mentioning the queue factor.
    Dual chargers make better use of a resource, plain and simple. HAL2 capable often means not having to be connected all night, overnight.
    There's only going to be more and more Teslas out there, not less...

    Hmmm. Or due to this:
    I don't even think Single will be a factory option after 2015. All Xs and Ss will be born dual, or just a 3rd gen single 20kW charger built in. That's the only way the assembly-line change makes sense!
     
  15. m6bigdog

    m6bigdog Member

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    #15 m6bigdog, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    You are only think of yourself and ignoring the fact that others may also need to charge their MS, since there are a limited number of charge stations at any one destination.
    It is more about sharing the limited resource as others are unable to charge because you are not worried about charge rate but more the faults economy of a single charger.
    Someday you will be in the Queue and it will dawn on you that charge rate has more to do with convenience and sharing the resource that how much time you have.
     
  16. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    This looks good zoomed out when each location marker becomes the size of 30 miles on the map. It shows an unrealistic visual. Once you zoom in, they are actually pretty sparse. But the truth really shows once you click on each of these locations. The majority are hotels and resorts that allow charging only to guests which rules them out as normal charging stations, especially when you need to charge fast. So those really aren't available. And it's not like you need fast charging when you stay over night at a hotel. Living and Los Angeles I have never found easy access to an actual Tesla HPWC anywhere.
     
  17. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    But you CAN use it every day at home with a HPWC if you have it configured for higher than 40 amps. The HPWC can be supplied via a 100 amp circuit delivering 80 amps continuous which will utilize the capacity of both onboard chargers.
     
  18. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    #18 Larry Chanin, May 25, 2015
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    Hi David,

    It's been my experience in Florida that these resorts and hotels want to make the most of their investment. While it is true that most won't let the public just drive in and use their HPWCs, (nor should they) the majority will permit charging when you dine there. Sometimes there may be a nominal fee. Many luxury resorts/hotels with HPWCs have charging as part of their valet operations. They might not only park your car, but hook it up to the charger as well. Valet parking might be over $20, but if you have diner at their fancy restaurants and have your ticket validated, they will waive the valet fee and allow you to charge for free. For breakfast or lunch that same resort/hotel might charge a nominal fee for the parking/charging service.

    The fact is that the fee structure for these luxury resorts/hotels can get involved and while clicking on a pin on the Plugshare website may yield the simple "For guests only" note, in actual fact most of the time resort/hotel restaurant patrons also benefit. This occurs with both J1772 installations as well as HPWC installation. Obviously, if you have dual chargers and an HPWC, you benefit even more by getting more of a charge while dining.

    On another note, Tesla is aggressively pursuing their Destination Charging Program where they provide free HPWCs to qualifying destinations. They have only recently just started getting serious about this. In Florida we have a full time Tesla resource who devotes all his time to the Destination Charging Program. Over time the destination charging network will expand greatly. As was pointed out, as more Tesla take to the roads it will be helpful to have a high capacity level 2 network to supplement the Supercharger network. Therefore, for those who are planning to configure their cars, it would be prudent to evaluate the value of having dual chargers over a longer planning horizon.

    Larry
     
  19. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Well, if you want to get up at 2AM or wish to be awakened then to switch cars, more power to you. I don't, and I'm extremely doubtful that many people are. I'd have to be extremely desperate to sit in a queue for any level of AC charging, so I plan ahead to avoid such eventualities.

    IMHO, destination charging is headed for oblivion as more DC charging options become available, Superchargers, CHAdeMO(if they can make it work) and SAE Combo. While I'm sure there are hundreds of people who don't mind sitting around for hours while their car charges, AC charging, 40A or 80A, other than overnight, is far too slow to be generally acceptable.
     
  20. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    It is interesting to note that the retail price of an HPWC with a capacity of 20 kW is $750. It weighs 20 pounds The least expensive CHAdeMO charger is subsidized by BMW at well over $6,000 and has a capacity of only slightly more at 24 kW. It weighs 120 pounds.

    Tesla's version of Destination Charging makes sense, in terms of practicality, economically and from a performance point of view, and the same connector works for level 2 and level 3 applications.

    Larry
     

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