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Dual Fatality Model S Crash/Fire: Fort Lauderdale, FL May 8, 2018
- Thread starter DaveK.
- Start date
jelloslug
Active Member
There have only been a handful of crash related fires for Tesla cars and every single one of them have been from high speed and/or severe head on crashes. The Bolt and i3 are not made in statically significantly high numbers nor have they been available long enough to correlate and the Leaf attracts a totally different demographic.
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You first need to find high speed and Leaf/Bolt in a single sentence, and then you can talk about fire.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Isn’t NCA more reactive than NMC? I was under the impression that this was the reason for Tesla’s high Wh/kg and also their relative likelihood to catch fire in very extreme collisions.
If NMC is less reactive and attached to a car that can’t go more than 85 MPH (or whatever) which doesn’t accelerate like a rail gun and is sold in small numbers, it would make sense that the NCA rocket ship would be more likely to go up in flames. Relatively, of course, as it’s still less likely than a liquid fueled vehicle.
If NMC is less reactive and attached to a car that can’t go more than 85 MPH (or whatever) which doesn’t accelerate like a rail gun and is sold in small numbers, it would make sense that the NCA rocket ship would be more likely to go up in flames. Relatively, of course, as it’s still less likely than a liquid fueled vehicle.
jelloslug
Active Member
And you can count the number of accident related fires on your hands and have fingers left over
jeffro01
Active Member
Why is it we make a huge deal out of EVERY Tesla crash where the car catches fire but we mention nothing when literally thousands of other cars do the same thing????
Jeff
Jeff
Lasttoy
Active Member
He got a 112mph ticket on 3 march. Why did he still have a drivers license?..
This is a rocket on wheels. I can speak from my garage where a 800 HP Chevy sleeps.
NTSB is all over this one just like Ca crash. Batteries will burn very hot and fast. They died in the car. There r pictures posted here in FL. Papers and video .
Parents please dont let you children a Tesla unless u put it Valet mode.
This is a rocket on wheels. I can speak from my garage where a 800 HP Chevy sleeps.
NTSB is all over this one just like Ca crash. Batteries will burn very hot and fast. They died in the car. There r pictures posted here in FL. Papers and video .
Parents please dont let you children a Tesla unless u put it Valet mode.
jelloslug
Active Member
Follow the traffic laws and the instructions that come with the car and your chances of survival will be greatly increased.
Lets put this in perspective:
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage.
17 every hour in the United States, between 2006 and 2010. That's more than 150,000 annually, which kill some 209 civilians every year.
Those numbers come from a September 2012 report by the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), brought to our attention by Reddit user lapearce.
And while vehicle fires hurt more than 750 people every year, the three Tesla fires caused no injuries. CEO Elon Musk, in a blog post explaining the first Model S fire, also drew on stats from the NFPA, writing:
Americans drive about 3 trillion miles per year according to the Department of Transportation. That equates to 1 vehicle fire for every 20 million miles driven, compared to 1 fire in over 100 million miles for Tesla.
CEO Elon Musk, in a blog post explaining the first Model S fire, also drew on stats from the NFPA, writing: ... That equates to 1 vehicle fire for every 20 million miles driven, compared to 1 fire in over 100 million miles forTesla.Nov 11, 2013
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage.
17 every hour in the United States, between 2006 and 2010. That's more than 150,000 annually, which kill some 209 civilians every year.
Those numbers come from a September 2012 report by the National Fire Protection Agency (NFPA), brought to our attention by Reddit user lapearce.
And while vehicle fires hurt more than 750 people every year, the three Tesla fires caused no injuries. CEO Elon Musk, in a blog post explaining the first Model S fire, also drew on stats from the NFPA, writing:
Americans drive about 3 trillion miles per year according to the Department of Transportation. That equates to 1 vehicle fire for every 20 million miles driven, compared to 1 fire in over 100 million miles for Tesla.
CEO Elon Musk, in a blog post explaining the first Model S fire, also drew on stats from the NFPA, writing: ... That equates to 1 vehicle fire for every 20 million miles driven, compared to 1 fire in over 100 million miles forTesla.Nov 11, 2013
The first national news I remember concerning EV fires was the Chevrolet Volt at the NHTSA test center in 2011. There are perhaps more Volts on the roads than any other car with >15kWh of lithium battery. The Volt was completely destroyed. It took 3 weeks for the fire to start after the initial side impact test ruptured the battery enclosure. GM reinforced the enclosure.
So in the interests of science and safety, the NHTSA decided to find out what it takes to cause a fire in a battery minus the car:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs/pdf/Final_Reports.pdf
90% of automobile fatalities occur at speeds of 71km/h or lower (44mph). The Bolt hits it's 150 km/h (93 mph) speed limiter in under 400 meters.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Absolutely. I am very confident in the safety of my car and prefer sitting on energy stored in a battery as opposed to energy stored in explosive liquid form.
Nevertheless fire departments need to know how to properly handle these unlikely events. They’ve had a hundred year start on how to deal with unstable liquid fuel storage after a collision.
He got a 112mph ticket on 3 march. Why did he still have a drivers license?..
This is a rocket on wheels. I can speak from my garage where a 800 HP Chevy sleeps.
NTSB is all over this one just like Ca crash. Batteries will burn very hot and fast. They died in the car. There r pictures posted here in FL. Papers and video .
Parents please dont let you children a Tesla unless u put it Valet mode.
Sorry, a little soapbox time. If it saves a single teen, it is worth the time to explore the following:
Parents:
Defensive driving courses like B.R.A.K.E.S. Home | B.R.A.K.E.S. Teen Driver's Training For Safe Driving and Accident Prevention should be mandatory for all drivers prior to being issued a license.
Everyone in my family has had a minimum of such a program, and Autocross training. I rode shotgun with my teens a minimum of 200 times prior to licensing. That's not as much as it sounds. That's only 5 months of driving to school and running errands, besides professional training.
BRAKES was started by a professional racecar driver when he lost his two boys at once in a single car crash. Notice I did not say accident. Accidents are rare. Most collisions are crashes. A bad decision proceeded the impact. ie - an unsafe choice was selected. It costs nothing. You must send a check for $99 to reserve a spot, but you get it back in the end. When you consider other programs start at $500 and up, it's a serious bargain. But only a chump would not donate the money. It teaches what to do when you lose control of a car, and how to avoid a crash when something unexpected occurs.
There is a BRAKES at Pomona coming up soon. Parents in SoCal should consider registering. You will get some seat-time too while your kid(s) are training.
There are other defensive driving courses all over the USA for all ages. I recommend Bondurant in Arizona. Fun, fun, fun to do the Grand Prix course.
California - Pretty sure at 18, a CVC 22348(b) - over 100 mph ticket, is a mandatory license suspension. It's a serious offense, like drunk or reckless driving.
Kant.Ing
Member
NTSB should also investigate what kind of hazmat suit or containment is needed for first responders to deal with EV fires. No one should let the car burn!
DanCar
Active Member
Types of Lithium-ion Batteries – Battery University
Battery University says that thermal runaway occurs at 302°F, 150°C, for NCA type batteries. Thermal runaway occurs at 410°F, 210°C for NMC type batteries.
My idea (worth what you pay for it):
In the future, fire trucks should have about 100lb of liquid N2 in a Dewar tank, that is filled at the station from a LN2 tank, which is cheap in bulk. Normally, only gases are flammable, so if you keep temps below vaporization temp, it's hard to burn things.
A long thin insulated nozzle could be reach into the rupture (by collision or flame) and essentially freeze much of the battery below a temp where it can produce electricity. Then spray water on it to insulate the cold areas, as ice is a good insulator. The battery will gradually warm and slowly release the chemical energy.
Would it work? I do not know.
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