Dumb Question: Is the P85+ faster than the P85?

[AnOutsider]

I feel like I should know this, but all of my impressions of the + thus far have been that it's a superior handler.

I've got a + loaner right now, and it indeed handles the way I expected the car would handle from the beginning. Very happy with it.

Today, I was waiting far too long to find a clear entrance into traffic. I finally decided to go in front of a truck and floor it (plenty of space, but I did need to move my rump once in traffic). I did, and floored it. The car sort of felt like an ICE with a supercharger or turbo. It accelerated, and then, maybe .8 seconds into it, the car felt like it hit a lower gear (or in an ICE, the turbo spooled up) and I felt like I was in a rocket. I've NEVER felt like that in my P85.

Once I was off the main road and on a back road, I went to replicate the feeling to see if it had just been a fluke, and sure enough, that thing FLIES!

So is there some acceleration improvement in the P+'s? Is it the wheels? Inverter? Inquiring (and jealous) minds want to know!

 

[100thMonkey]

I've experienced the same thing. that extra sticky performance rubber and the extra 20mm on each rear tire adds a lot of traction. my understanding is the power from the motor is the same and that the difference is in the bushings (less shimmy) and offset tires (more grip). that initial pause is, I believe (in non-technical terms) the traction control holding back a bit at the very edge of grip while the car picks up enough momentum to go full blast without slipping. the P+ is a superb drive! I think of it as what the P was really meant to be. the only downside I've noticed so far is more road noise. I expect the cost in tires to be a bit hard to swallow and am still pondering putting regular 21's on the back. I drove around with the regular 21 configuration and the P+ is still an order of magnitude better in handling than the P with 21's. really, in this climate, in the winter, I should switch to the 19's for good winter tires, which just feels like a giant step backwards, but until I actually compare, I won't know. I'll report back about handling with those when/if I go down that route.

 

[AnOutsider]

Ah, traction makes sense. And yes, the P85+ performs exactly how I was expecting the P85 to perform. It's getting hard not to want to trade in.

 

[brianman]

As you've noted, traction can "change the game" a bit. My understanding is that a new P85 and a new P85+ will perform the same in a straight line if you give them the same rear wheels and tires.

But, I would also expect that Tesla's maturation in production might make a new P85 quicker than an old P85. If that assumption is correct, then on average a P85+ will be quicker than a P85 because on average P85s are older than P85+ vehicles.

 

[lolachampcar]

Pure speculation on my part but all the MS are so very close to each other on 1/4 mile times (S to S, P to P) that I would be willing to bet they are controlling energy very carefully. If I am right, the acceleration times would be nearly identical with just that very early launch being different. The real way to try this is put a P or a P+ up against someone's P or P+ with wider rear rims (20s?) and fatter Pilot Super Sports or similar "more sticky" tires. There is not a lot of traction drama on a MS launch so it probably does not make a huge difference. All the cars launch like they are shot from a cannon when compared to ICE

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I had the pleasure of driving a P85+ loaner for the day. It didn't feel any different than my P85, except it was noisier and had very high Wh/m usage under the same driving conditions. Driving the same route and at approximately the same speeds, my P85 would average 250 Wh/m while the P85+ would not get below 300 Wh/m. I don't know if the difference is due to the added heft and traction of the tires, but there seems to be a difference. I admit that my experience is purely anecdotal and unscientific, but I found it interesting.

Oh, and I have the 19" Primacy tires which are supposed to improve range by a small amount.

 

[lolachampcar]

funny as my P85 was about 310 over 4500 miles and my P+ is right at 308 over 3800 (very happy smiling) miles.... Perhaps I'm just getting better at throttle management over time thus making up for the P+.

 

[Gizmotoy]

When I started taking my car to the track, I was introduced to what the experienced guys called "Rule #1": tires are the single best performance investment you can make in your car. You've just seen it demonstrated first-hand.

If you're interested, Rule #2: buy the best and biggest brakes that will fit. :biggrin:

 

[brianman]

When I started taking my car to the track, I was introduced to what the experienced guys called "Rule #1": tires are the single best performance investment you can make in your car. You've just seen it demonstrated first-hand.

Disagree.

Best investment is the driver.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Disagree.
Best investment is the driver.

Unless the driver is the car, it's hard to invest money in a car by spending money on the driver.

If you're getting at the fact that driver is more important than car, sure, but that would just be disregarding what I actually said.

 

[brianman]

Unless the driver is the car, it's hard to invest money in a car by spending money on the driver.
If you're getting at the fact that driver is more important than car, sure, but that would just be disregarding what I actually said.

When you drive you're car you're not "in" it? Videos please.

 

[Gizmotoy]

When you drive you're car you're not "in" it? Videos please.

Is the implication that I am the car? Because upgrading the driver can't really be done by spending money on the car. My statement was clearly the "best performance investment you can make in your car."

... Holy crap I just got it. I'm an idiot. :biggrin:

 

[brianman]

: )

 

[AnOutsider]

I had the pleasure of driving a P85+ loaner for the day. It didn't feel any different than my P85, except it was noisier and had very high Wh/m usage under the same driving conditions. Driving the same route and at approximately the same speeds, my P85 would average 250 Wh/m while the P85+ would not get below 300 Wh/m. I don't know if the difference is due to the added heft and traction of the tires, but there seems to be a difference. I admit that my experience is purely anecdotal and unscientific, but I found it interesting.

Oh, and I have the 19" Primacy tires which are supposed to improve range by a small amount.

funny as my P85 was about 310 over 4500 miles and my P+ is right at 308 over 3800 (very happy smiling) miles.... Perhaps I'm just getting better at throttle management over time thus making up for the P+.

Yeah I was going to say... purely anecdotal, but it's been fairly cold, and I made a trip to NJ and back on a single charge because when I got there my usage was something like 333. Even when not cold out, I typically got higher rated usage than that. The Tesla site also says something about the tires improving range.

Of course, it could be because they limit the loaners' top speed :biggrin:

 

[joefee]

Road noise is a no go for me … I’ll keep my P85 thank you!

 

[mnx]

You have a p85? Surprising.
Aren't you always giving people a hard time if they mention speeding or driving aggressively or anything like it?

I had the pleasure of driving a P85+ loaner for the day. It didn't feel any different than my P85, except it was noisier and had very high Wh/m usage under the same driving conditions. Driving the same route and at approximately the same speeds, my P85 would average 250 Wh/m while the P85+ would not get below 300 Wh/m. I don't know if the difference is due to the added heft and traction of the tires, but there seems to be a difference. I admit that my experience is purely anecdotal and unscientific, but I found it interesting.

Oh, and I have the 19" Primacy tires which are supposed to improve range by a small amount.

 

[Gizmotoy]

You have a p85? Surprising.
Aren't you always giving people a hard time if they mention speeding or driving aggressively or anything like it?

The two aren't exclusive. I have a P85 on the way: My wife makes fun of me all the time for driving "like a grandma" on the street, (mostly) obeying speed limits and traffic laws... and then I get yelled at for driving "like a madman" on the track.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

You have a p85? Surprising.
Aren't you always giving people a hard time if they mention speeding or driving aggressively or anything like it?

I'm sorry, but what does one have to do with the other?

 

[AnOutsider]

Road noise is a no go for me … I’ll keep my P85 thank you!

I haven't noticed much road noise, but that could be for 2 reasons:

1) in my sig, I mainly hear road noise from the back, and typically put the parcel shelf in to mute it if there isn't anything back there (like luggage). This loaner has the jump seats, so maybe they mask the sound.
2) this car has the noisy pano roof, so that pretty much takes the focus while driving.

 

[texex91]

Yep it's MUCH faster--well maybe not technically :wink:, but the suspension and handling are simply amazing for a 4-door car.

And yes, it hauls a**.

Tires also help in the way the car feels more planted than a P (again just my .02).