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Dumb Safety score

The hard breaking metric was easily the most frustrating for me. Way too sensitive IMO, and doesn’t account for when you may need to break quicker because someone else around you executes an unsafe maneuver, which happens all the time in busy cities.

It wouldn’t be a terrible metric if they measured hard breaking to mean that you’re regularly slamming the breaks or constantly decelerating rapidly, but as it’s currently measured, even letting regen kick in too quickly will trigger a hard breaking event.
 

srs5694

Active Member
Jan 15, 2019
1,276
1,597
Woonsocket, RI
Pro tip: running red lights and hitting pedestrians who dart out in front of you will prevent hard braking demerits and not count against your safety score. 🤡
Hitting a pedestrian, or especially another car, because you run a red light, will cause deceleration, which would cause a demerit on your Safety Score. Plus which, if your car is totaled and/or you're in jail, you won't be able to "enjoy" the experience of babysitting FSD-on-city-streets as it fails to slow down for construction crews, misses turns, takes the turns it doesn't miss very jerkily, etc.

In other words: Stop sweating it. The current FSD beta is not worth getting excited about -- at least, not from the perspective of somebody who wants a useful feature. (It is an impressive technology, but it's not yet a useful feature.) The Safety Score is an imperfect, but pragmatic, way for Tesla to control the expansion of the FSD beta program. Tesla owners should NOT get too invested in managing our Safety Scores. I honestly wish that Tesla hadn't made those scores public, because, IMHO, too many people are paying too much attention to them and using them to game their driving styles in ways that often degrade, rather than improve, safety.
 
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Radlaw

Charles
Supporting Member
Dec 29, 2018
250
118
San Diego California
This Safety Score system is ridiculous. For example, if I'm on the freeway and someone jumps in front of me and I jam on the brakes for safety to keep from hitting the car, I'm penalized for 1) forward collision warning, 2) hard braking & 3) unsafe following all because I was trying to be safe, thereby lowering my score because of someone else's bad driving. There are other indicators that might give a better indication of safe driving e.g. using turn signals appropriately, not speeding more than 10 mph over the posted limit, not going through yellow-red lights and more. These can all be measured by the Tesla's system. Come on Tesla, you can do better.
 

JulienW

Active Member
Jul 7, 2018
3,179
4,236
Atlanta
This Safety Score system is ridiculous. For example, if I'm on the freeway and someone jumps in front of me and I jam on the brakes for safety to keep from hitting the car, I'm penalized for 1) forward collision warning, 2) hard braking & 3) unsafe following all because I was trying to be safe, thereby lowering my score because of someone else's bad driving. There are other indicators that might give a better indication of safe driving e.g. using turn signals appropriately, not speeding more than 10 mph over the posted limit, not going through yellow-red lights and more. These can all be measured by the Tesla's system. Come on Tesla, you can do better.
You should be using AP anytime you are on the freeway. Manually driving on any urban freeway all but insures you will get a lower score.

The Safety Score isn't so much about safe driving as it is about preparing you to keep a carful eye on everything FSD is doing or not doing. And "controlling" and managing your Safety Score offers Tesla proof that you will go the extra mile to control FSD Beta.
 
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Radlaw

Charles
Supporting Member
Dec 29, 2018
250
118
San Diego California
You should be using AP anytime you are on the freeway. Manually driving on any urban freeway all but insures you will get a lower score.

The Safety Score isn't so much about safe driving as it is about preparing you to keep a carful eye on everything FSD is doing or not doing. And "controlling" and managing your Safety Score offers Tesla proof that you will go the extra mile to control FSD Beta.
The issue is not what one SHOULD do, but a hypothetical example of the fallacy within the Safety Score system as it is now.
 

EVRider-FL

Active Member
Aug 18, 2015
1,285
766
South Florida
The Safety Score isn't so much about safe driving as it is about preparing you to keep a carful eye on everything FSD is doing or not doing. And "controlling" and managing your Safety Score offers Tesla proof that you will go the extra mile to control FSD Beta.
I don’t think how you drive is a measure of how well you’ll monitor FSD Beta. The only relevant aspect of the Safety Score is getting booted from Autopilot, which indicates you weren’t paying attention. Nevertheless, it is what it is.
 

PDX-Y

Member
May 24, 2021
247
312
Portland, OR
The Safety Score isn't so much about safe driving as it is about preparing you to keep a carful eye on everything FSD is doing or not doing.
Per Tesla, the feature was designed originally to enable automated insurance rates, and the weights in the model were derived using actual accident data. While it's being cleverly used to rate-limit the FSD rollout, that's definitely not what it's "about". It's about predicting how expensive your vehicle is going to be to cover, statistically.

I think people complaining about this are probably not thinking through. It's absolutely true that you can brake hard or take an aggressive turn without being unsafe. But people who reliably approach intersections fast or swing hard into traffic are more likely to get into accidents when they (inevitably) make mistakes. Cautious drivers who slow way down before the light or creep out around a turn are less likely to be surprised (because they have more time to see things) and less likely to hit the obstacles they fail to notice (because they have more time to correct).
 
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Radlaw

Charles
Supporting Member
Dec 29, 2018
250
118
San Diego California
Per Tesla, the feature was designed originally to enable automated insurance rates, and the weights in the model were derived using actual accident data. While it's being cleverly used to rate-limit the FSD rollout, that's definitely not what it's "about". It's about predicting how expensive your vehicle is going to be to cover, statistically.

I think people complaining about this are probably not thinking through. It's absolutely true that you can brake hard or take an aggressive turn without being unsafe. But people who reliably approach intersections fast or swing hard into traffic are more likely to get into accidents when they (inevitably) make mistakes. Cautious drivers who slow way down before the light or creep out around a turn are less likely to be surprised (because they have more time to see things) and less likely to hit the obstacles they fail to notice (because they have more time to correct).
That's all well and good. However, Teala's using the score to determine who gets the FSD upgrade. Currently, they are limiting it to those who score 99-100. No matter how "safe" I drive, I can't get above 96. And I cautiously watch all the indicators. I'd love to see how whoever gets 99-100 they drive. Maybe i can learn something. I do realize that since this program began, I drive better, but I can't control how others drive which ultimately affect my score.
 

PDX-Y

Member
May 24, 2021
247
312
Portland, OR
No matter how "safe" I drive, I can't get above 96.
I have a 98, no exploits needed beyond standard adaptations like "use AP on highways" and "leave lots of space". There were 12k 99+ scores with FSD as of last week, probably more now. Someone's able to do this, clearly.

But even granting your point that this is impossible absent a virtuosic ability to game the system: isn't that the population (people with a OCD-like focus on figuring the system's quirks out and a demonstrated ability to control their vehicle successfully within the game's rules) exactly who Tesla wants to have testing its beta autonomy product?

I mean, it's not a reward. It's an opportunity to help test software that doesn't quite work yet.
 
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EVRider-FL

Active Member
Aug 18, 2015
1,285
766
South Florida
I think people complaining about this are probably not thinking through. It's absolutely true that you can brake hard or take an aggressive turn without being unsafe. But people who reliably approach intersections fast or swing hard into traffic are more likely to get into accidents when they (inevitably) make mistakes. Cautious drivers who slow way down before the light or creep out around a turn are less likely to be surprised (because they have more time to see things) and less likely to hit the obstacles they fail to notice (because they have more time to correct).
I would agree with you if the hard braking and aggressive turning penalties were caused by actual hard braking and aggressive turning, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The car is way too conservative when measuring these forces. Both my wife and I drive very unagressively, but both our cars are repeatedly dinged for hard braking and aggressive turning. I've opted out, my wife is still in.
 
This Safety Score system is ridiculous. For example, if I'm on the freeway and someone jumps in front of me and I jam on the brakes for safety to keep from hitting the car, I'm penalized for 1) forward collision warning, 2) hard braking & 3) unsafe following all because I was trying to be safe, thereby lowering my score because of someone else's bad driving. There are other indicators that might give a better indication of safe driving e.g. using turn signals appropriately, not speeding more than 10 mph over the posted limit, not going through yellow-red lights and more. These can all be measured by the Tesla's system. Come on Tesla, you can do better.
I have the exact same issues in New York where so many people drive dangerously. I have avoided accidents for 30 years, but Tesla lowers my safety score. Just stupid.
 

PDX-Y

Member
May 24, 2021
247
312
Portland, OR
Uh.... what is this safety score? How do you find it? I've never heard of this.
Enroll in the FSD beta queue in the settings page in your car (or move to Texas, buy Tesla insurance, and opt in that way -- this was originally an insurance product). After that, you will have a "Safety Score" page in your app you can view and freak out about.

FWIW: don't listen to the freakouts. Managing a safety score at or near 100 is doable, but it requires a lot of attention and care, and no small amount of gaming the system. People who want to complain about it are people who want to get access to new toys without having to work for it or change how they drive, which is exactly the population Tesla does not want testing beta autonomy stacks.
 

K5TRX

Member
Sep 16, 2018
170
216
USA
That's all well and good. However, Teala's using the score to determine who gets the FSD upgrade. Currently, they are limiting it to those who score 99-100. No matter how "safe" I drive, I can't get above 96. And I cautiously watch all the indicators. I'd love to see how whoever gets 99-100 they drive. Maybe i can learn something. I do realize that since this program began, I drive better, but I can't control how others drive which ultimately affect my score.
FSD Beta is not an upgrade. The FSD upgrade that I paid for is a long way off.
I was stuck at 96. I un-enrolled and re-enrolled. I get almost all100's now.
For me, it meant giving up having a sports car that can turn like it is on rails.
I have to be watching all the time. And yup, being in a harsh urban environment
makes it hard.

You can do it. A whole lot of us have.
  • Set to Chill Mode. Set Follow Distance at 7.
  • You never touch the brakes except at very slow speeds. Regen only.
  • You never accelerate or brake while turning. Turn slow. No, slower.
  • Don't get a Forward Collision Warning or Auto Pilot disengagement. (Delete a bad trip)
  • Use AutoPilot in bad situations (like where someone might cut you off).
And ask anyone who has FSD. Getting the 100 score is the easy part.
Testing FSD is hard.

If you want to get a 100, you can.
 
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