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During a recent service battery swap received an A pack???

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There are some on this forum that would argue that Tesla never "touted" 120 kW SpC. Rather, they argue, the May announcement simply said it was in beta test mode with no promise or expectation set that anyone would ever experience it. I totally disagree with this argument, but couldn't resist pointing out the flaws in it at such an opportune moment. The OP has every right to expect a B.
I thought the argument over the May announcement was whether or not it meant all Model S made so far would support 120kW or if all cars going forward would support it. It turned out to be the latter.

However, this issue appears to be orthogonal to that as the OP in this thread got his car way after that announcement.

I may have to dig up the actual text of the warranty, but I believe it says that Tesla would replace the pack with one with the same or better capability.
 
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There are some on this forum that would argue that Tesla never "touted" 120 kW SpC. Rather, they argue, the May announcement simply said it was in beta test mode with no promise or expectation set that anyone would ever experience it. I totally disagree with this argument, but couldn't resist pointing out the flaws in it at such an opportune moment. The OP has every right to expect a B.

I never read anyone making that claim. I have seen people - myself included - say that Tesla never said that all cars would receive 120 kW Supercharging - but rather they said that Supercharging technology would eventually hit 120 kW.

I agree in this case that the capability should never be downgraded, and in my own experience, many service centers don't know the differences in capabilities between battery packs. I educated the local service center on it, and have read stories of several others getting TMC member educations as well. Sounds like Tesla did the right thing for Jake and will likely do it here too.
 
This is exactly what happened with me, I had a B pack, they replaced it with a pack with part number ending in A, I confirmed it was limited to 90kW, and the SC immediately ordered me a B-pack refurb replacement instead. Now I am back to 120kW capable.
 
Well that B back would have been handy this weekend...Rolled into Hawthorn, Tejon Ranch, Harris Ranch, Gilroy with 20 miles left and left with around 180 miles each time.

Tesla looked up the service records and agreed they goofed and gave me the wrong part number. SC will be swapping out the pack tomorrow.

I could see this going unnoticed if a customer doesn't supercharge...
 
I'd encourage everyone to check their SOC as well as their pack type after a warranty replacement. I still feel that I got shorted range somewhat with my refurb A with no change from Tesla despite the warranty clearly stating something else. The range improved with 5.9 beta and 5.9 official that followed, but my original pack would likely have improved with 5.9 as well leaving me realizing that my car with only "6k" miles can only charge to 257 max range and that this is a permanent and non-recoverable loss now. Asking Tesla about this resulted in nothing but a service center call. Returning to the service center resulting in nothing done about this. Balancing resulted in minimal change that did not last.

Tips after failure of your pack:
1. Insist prior to the change on a same or better grade pack B to B, C, D, E . . .
2. Insist that the SOC / rated range match or be better prior to the change.

If you educate the service center that these things are important in your situation, maybe you can have both. If you say nothing, you are accepting the readily available refurb as the service centers and Tesla don't have a real policy despite the way the warranty is written.
 
I'd encourage everyone to check their SOC as well as their pack type after a warranty replacement. I still feel that I got shorted range somewhat with my refurb A with no change from Tesla despite the warranty clearly stating something else. The range improved with 5.9 beta and 5.9 official that followed, but my original pack would likely have improved with 5.9 as well leaving me realizing that my car with only "6k" miles can only charge to 257 max range and that this is a permanent and non-recoverable loss now. Asking Tesla about this resulted in nothing but a service center call. Returning to the service center resulting in nothing done about this. Balancing resulted in minimal change that did not last.

Tips after failure of your pack:
1. Insist prior to the change on a same or better grade pack B to B, C, D, E . . .
2. Insist that the SOC / rated range match or be better prior to the change.

If you educate the service center that these things are important in your situation, maybe you can have both. If you say nothing, you are accepting the readily available refurb as the service centers and Tesla don't have a real policy despite the way the warranty is written.

This whole battery economics thing is quite a case study. As an "A" pack owner, I'm keenly sensitive to these issues, but not without some perspective.

In the case of a century's history of ICE cars, the most critical and expensive part: the engine. In case of an engine failure and replacement, without a test track crew and a stopwatch, a calibrated fuel economy loop, logged prior statistics of same engine, etc., it would be nigh impossible to detect a 3% change in the engine's performance or fuel consumption.

Roll forward to the plug in electric. Most critical and expensive part: the battery. In case of engine failure and replacement, owner has full information to detect 1% change in performance/range.

In both cases, the manufacturer, who must provide a reasonable warranty, prefers to rely upon replacement parts "refurbished within specifications". And, I'm sure Tesla would say that 257 vs. 265 max range after 6 months is "within specifications". As they have said that 90 vs. 120 kW supercharging is "within specification". I'm sure they shake their heads at intergalactic, and think it's a nit. And for those with the higher performing part, it seems like a nit. But it sure feels different for an owner with the 3% shorter end of either stick - whether caused by manufacturing sequence or replacement part availability.

If Tesla always has to produce same or better, which may require multiple swaps, their economics go south and the only recourse is charge more for the car and reserve for that warranty cost.

I've caught myself saying "WTF?!?!?" when reading these threads about indignant B owners getting a refurbished A re-replaced -- when as an A owner produced the same week as B owners I've learned to accept that I don't get that swap.

Just as with OTA software updates, no model years, franchise-less distribution and service - Tesla has to learn as they discover the pitfalls of this new paradigm of complete battery performance transparency. Happy to be part of the experiment, and hoping that reasonable and equitable solutions to these problems will prevail.
 
Just as with OTA software updates, no model years, franchise-less distribution and service - Tesla has to learn as they discover the pitfalls of this new paradigm of complete battery performance transparency. Happy to be part of the experiment, and hoping that reasonable and equitable solutions to these problems will prevail.

Perhaps Tesla finds out that the no-model-year element fails in the marketplace because consumers have issues with it, and they'd have to return to the "hardware improvements only come once a year" model. I'm watching it myself, because issues like the 90/120 kW are beginning to show consumer behavior that will drive manufacturers' future approaches. It may be the only way to deal with a stream of consumers who have the usual technology lifecycle concerns.

I wonder if anyone went to Tesla and demanded a free suspension upgrade - along the lines of my paid service to put the current production spec P85 parts on the car? In a "model year" arrangement, you wouldn't have that type of customer. But I wouldn't want to hold Tesla back to making product improvements only once per year (or perhaps twice, or some other type of 'release' model). That model is wasteful, because supply chain logistics never end up being perfect, and you end up with inefficiencies in the sourcing process as a result -- and impact to the price/margins result.

I'm a supporter of Tesla's continuous development model... it would be a shame to have to revert because consumers just can't handle it.
 
Is range (either rated or ideal) really a reliable indicator of battery health?
Neither of them, not at 80% and not at 100%.
Maybe it is close to truth at 0% when the car decides it isn't go anywhere anymore thus estimated range of 0 is correct.
Both - rated and ideal range are a vague result of an algorithm that chews over a few dozens of inputs and spews out a single number pretending to be something real.

Computer performance used to be presented in MIPS, that soon got to be know as Meaningless Indication of Processor Speed.

Ideal Miles Range or IMR == Idiotic Measurement of Range
Rated Miles Range or RMR == Retarded Measurement of Range

The ONLY real and reliable test is EPA test. Why? Because the "new" number is the result of EPA testing a new battery.

I see many whining about "lost range" and no-one repeating the EPA test to really measure the degradation.

A heretic thought: What if tesla's range estimation algorithm is overly optimistic (i.e. lying) and battery degradation really is (much?) worse than 'we' are to believe?
Without repeating EPA test we just don't know.
 
I find rated range to be quite useless especially when it matters most, long road trips.

After picking up the car for the first time in the bay area, I immediately drove it to Los Angeles, which I almost ran out of juice because +40 miles above the rated range wasn't enough for going 80mph on the freeway.

I think Tesla needs to integrate smart GPS and elevation algorithms for these trips. Or post some signs at the superchargers indicating rated range numbers for the next supercharger stop. It would have been very helpful if it said something like

Harris Ranch => Tejon Ranch
Actual 110 miles
70MPH @ 150 Rated Range
80MPH @ 160 Rated Range
90MPH @ 175 Rated Range

Something like that.
 
I wonder if anyone went to Tesla and demanded a free suspension upgrade - along the lines of my paid service to put the current production spec P85 parts on the car? In a "model year" arrangement, you wouldn't have that type of customer. But I wouldn't want to hold Tesla back to making product improvements only once per year (or perhaps twice, or some other type of 'release' model). That model is wasteful, because supply chain logistics never end up being perfect, and you end up with inefficiencies in the sourcing process as a result -- and impact to the price/margins result.

I'm a supporter of Tesla's continuous development model... it would be a shame to have to revert because consumers just can't handle it.

I support innovation as well. I am not upset that newer cars have a revised suspension or newer revision console computers. I would like to see some of the more reasonably priced changes get included with my service plan, but that's another discussion. However, I do draw the line where TM sets an expectation that improved functionality will be brought to all customers and then have that not be met.
 
Perhaps Tesla finds out that the no-model-year element fails in the marketplace because consumers have issues with it, and they'd have to return to the "hardware improvements only come once a year" model. I'm watching it myself, because issues like the 90/120 kW are beginning to show consumer behavior that will drive manufacturers' future approaches. It may be the only way to deal with a stream of consumers who have the usual technology lifecycle concerns.

I wonder if anyone went to Tesla and demanded a free suspension upgrade - along the lines of my paid service to put the current production spec P85 parts on the car? In a "model year" arrangement, you wouldn't have that type of customer. But I wouldn't want to hold Tesla back to making product improvements only once per year (or perhaps twice, or some other type of 'release' model). That model is wasteful, because supply chain logistics never end up being perfect, and you end up with inefficiencies in the sourcing process as a result -- and impact to the price/margins result.

I'm a supporter of Tesla's continuous development model... it would be a shame to have to revert because consumers just can't handle it.

They are also no doubt creating an incredibly complex change management system for themselves. Which version of which components does each car have? How many variations are there? Way more than three (2012, 2013, and 2014) that's for sure.