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E3D & E5D for Model 3 LR 2021 - Battery mess

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
10,827
12,560
Riverside Co. CA
It looks, that Tesla is lying and supplying EU LR21 with a china NMC 811 LG Chem battery. I don't want this unstable chemistry! The only benefit is a low price - for Tesla. About 60% slower charging speed and no information about lifecycle. https://twitter.com/Debuking5/status/1339598021600759814?s=20

Not that I am invested in this topic one way or the other, but it appears you joined this website today to make this post, linking to some random twitter feed.

=====================
Separate from my thought above...

(moderator note: new users normally have to post a few times before the forum website will let them put links in posts. I approved your post here but suggest you post a few times before adding more links.)
 

Filip K

Member
Jan 8, 2020
18
10
Czech Republic
Not that I am invested in this topic one way or the other, but it appears you joined this website today to make this post, linking to some random twitter feed.

=====================
Separate from my thought above...

(moderator note: new users normally have to post a few times before the forum website will let them put links in posts. I approved your post here but suggest you post a few times before adding more links.)

Sorry about that, I'm concerned about NMC 811. I wrote to Tesla and they reply, that in my car E5D is a Panasonic NCA battery. I hope that it is true and they will solve the charging speed with OTA.
 

EV Promoter

Member
Nov 30, 2019
335
998
Europe
Sorry about that, I'm concerned about NMC 811. I wrote to Tesla and they reply, that in my car E5D is a Panasonic NCA battery. I hope that it is true and they will solve the charging speed with OTA.

This thread has been updated with informations later arrived, but not deniying what is written here.

2021 Model 3 - Charge data

Bjorn charge Test V3 & Ionity: LR 2021 LG Chem vs. LR 2019 Pana

But anyway, you'll be the first to have an E5D with Panasonic, the thing is anomalous. If your info came from Tesla, i would not rely on it at all, they are trying to avoid people refuses the car, as it's happening, for the 14 days "no question" rules valid in EU.

I would not believe it, the homologation EU documents states clearly that E5D it's homologated only with LG and your car would be irregular

c69b29cd5072dbb12c05bb8910f47a8eb6ec68c6.jpeg
:
 

Filip K

Member
Jan 8, 2020
18
10
Czech Republic
This thread has been updated with informations later arrived, but not deniying what is written here.

2021 Model 3 - Charge data

Bjorn charge Test V3 & Ionity: LR 2021 LG Chem vs. LR 2019 Pana

But anyway, you'll be the first to have an E5D with Panasonic, the thing is anomalous. If your info came from Tesla, i would not rely on it at all, they are trying to avoid people refuses the car, as it's happening, for the 14 days "no question" rules valid in EU.

I would not believe it, the homologation EU documents states clearly that E5D it's homologated only with LG and your car would be irregular

View attachment 618775 :

I think you are correct. My speculation is, that if Panasonic announced cells with a 5% increase in energy density - why they should, in time between, manufacture cells with 5% decrease compared to 2018 cells. I think that Tesla staff don't know about LG Chem used in Fremont. Also, the charging curve is exactly the same as LG Chem used in China. Too many coincidences...
 

Filip K

Member
Jan 8, 2020
18
10
Czech Republic
This thread has been updated with informations later arrived, but not deniying what is written here.

2021 Model 3 - Charge data

Bjorn charge Test V3 & Ionity: LR 2021 LG Chem vs. LR 2019 Pana

But anyway, you'll be the first to have an E5D with Panasonic, the thing is anomalous. If your info came from Tesla, i would not rely on it at all, they are trying to avoid people refuses the car, as it's happening, for the 14 days "no question" rules valid in EU.

I would not believe it, the homologation EU documents states clearly that E5D it's homologated only with LG and your car would be irregular

View attachment 618775 :

Got a reply from the Tesla store manager: "The battery supplier is not specified when ordering the car, so it is not possible to say that you ordered a car with a Panasonic battery.".
 
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OttoR

Member
Mar 12, 2020
224
140
Amsterdam
Got a reply from the Tesla store manager: "The battery supplier is not specified when ordering the car, so it is not possible to say that you ordered a car with a Panasonic battery.".

But it does when it has different characteristics than the Panasonic battery. E.g. Less range, slower charge and possible worse degradation over time are reasons to call upon Tesla to fix this.

I personally really do not care wether the battery is from Panasonic or LG as long as the end result is the same.

If they would have sold Panasonic today and LG with improvements in 6 months, that would be fine as well; but today it is a lottery where one model is supplied with Pana and the other with LG that suppose to be the same cars with the same behaviour.
If that is not the case than you have a reason to complain that the car does not operate as advertised.

If the LG battery is currently being tested and optimised and turns out to be the better battery; people who received a Panasonic battery would complain as well.
 

EvanLin

Member
Oct 9, 2016
112
153
Asia
I would not believe it, the homologation EU documents states clearly that E5D it's homologated only with LG and your car would be irregular

View attachment 618775 :
This picture is interesting. Can you provide the source?

E3D and E5D are still mixed up. How do EU owners confirm it's LG except the "document"?

If it's true, do you know LG cells from China or US? Seems ineffective to transport LG pack from China to US to Europe...
 
Last edited:

Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
2,088
1,448
Syracuse, NY
It looks, that Tesla is lying and supplying EU LR21 with a china NMC 811 LG Chem battery. I don't want this unstable chemistry! The only benefit is a low price - for Tesla. About 60% slower charging speed and no information about lifecycle. https://twitter.com/Debuking5/status/1339598021600759814?s=20

I don't think Tesla is "lying". To supply the European market, some Model 3s are coming from the US and some are coming from China. The MIC (Made in China) Model 3s have the LG Chem batteries because Tesla has contracts with LG Chem and CATL to supply batteries for the Model 3s made in China. The LG Chem and CATL batteries are of a different chemistry then the Tesla/Panasonic batteries from the Nevada Gigafactory. However, I heard they are putting a higher capacity battery (the LG Chem ones) to make up for the less efficient battery chemistry. Also they seem to charge slower than the Tesla/Panasonic batteries.

As far as I know, the US Fremont factory is NOT using LG Chem batteries. (Would like to be proven wrong on this) So if you want the Panasonic battery, buy a made in the US Model 3. Also the more dense Panasonic battery is not in full production yet? Do all 2021 US Model 3s have the higher density battery? US owners will have to chime in on that.
 
Last edited:
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Filip K

Member
Jan 8, 2020
18
10
Czech Republic
I don't think Tesla is "lying". To supply the European market, some Model 3s are coming from the US and some are coming from China. The MIC (Made in China) Model 3s have the LG Chem batteries because Tesla has contracts with LG Chem and CATL to supply batteries for the Model 3s made in China. The LG Chem and CATL batteries are of a different chemistry then the Tesla/Panasonic batteries from the Nevada Gigafactory. However, I heard they are putting a higher capacity battery (the LG Chem ones) to make up for the less efficient battery chemistry. Also they seem to charge slower than the Tesla/Panasonic batteries.

As far as I know, the US Fremont factory is NOT using LG Chem batteries. (Would like to be proven wrong on this) So if you want the Panasonic battery, buy a made in the US Model 3. Also the more dense Panasonic battery is not in full production yet? Do all 2021 US Model 3s have the higher density battery? US owners will have to chime in on that.

My car is manufactured in Fremont, but has the smaller battery pack with up to 50% worse charging performance than 2019 Panasonic pack.

The charging curve is exactly same as chinese LG Chem (sold as TM3 LR in China).

What do you think about that? I'm very disappointed.
 

Filip K

Member
Jan 8, 2020
18
10
Czech Republic
I don't think Tesla is "lying". To supply the European market, some Model 3s are coming from the US and some are coming from China. The MIC (Made in China) Model 3s have the LG Chem batteries because Tesla has contracts with LG Chem and CATL to supply batteries for the Model 3s made in China. The LG Chem and CATL batteries are of a different chemistry then the Tesla/Panasonic batteries from the Nevada Gigafactory. However, I heard they are putting a higher capacity battery (the LG Chem ones) to make up for the less efficient battery chemistry. Also they seem to charge slower than the Tesla/Panasonic batteries.

As far as I know, the US Fremont factory is NOT using LG Chem batteries. (Would like to be proven wrong on this) So if you want the Panasonic battery, buy a made in the US Model 3. Also the more dense Panasonic battery is not in full production yet? Do all 2021 US Model 3s have the higher density battery? US owners will have to chime in on that.

Fremont setup:

upload_2020-12-22_21-29-39.png
 
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OttoR

Member
Mar 12, 2020
224
140
Amsterdam
I have been delivered a M3LR 2021 Refresh on monday US build; including heatpump and new headlights. iirc MiC M3 are all SR+ and not refreshed yet. Mine has a registration with E5D as variant; which according to this topic would imply the LG Chem battery.

If TeslaFi is to be beleived; the Estimated Range At 100% comes to 535 km.
 

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