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EAP - Does it make sense at all on a lease?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by int-veh, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. int-veh

    int-veh Member

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    Thanks everyone for the feedback. Looks like mixed experience so far. I think @Sawyer8888 summed it up best. "Adding EAP does not make sense, but it is a must."

    The follow-up question I have:
    Tesla touts Model S' safety. However, many of the safety features including forward collision warning, blind spot warning, lane drift warning, etc. are part of the EAP upgrade if I understand correct. Shouldn't they be standard features for a $70K car? Also, it seems some of those basic safety features are yet not functional.

    I understand Tesla still needs to make money for all this tech, but if they are putting all the tech in the vehicle anyway, wouldn't it be better to bundle EAP as standard for another $2K to the base vehicle price for everyone rather than charge $5K as an option? That could be another key way to differentiate between M3 and M S/X.
     
  2. OilSucks

    OilSucks Member

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    You're over thinking things. I suggest you go back to your Tesla adviser and ask them to show you how to use the AP system. It's a dream on long road trips.
     
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  3. d21mike

    d21mike Member

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    I ordered a Model S a couple weeks ago and only had 1 test drive. I watched a lot of YouTube Videos (search Tesla Autopilot) and there are a lot where regular drivers are video taping their experience with different versions of AP2 and AP1. Except for my test driving myself that seems to be the most helpful. For me the only reason I am getting a Tesla is for Autopilot and the future of Autopilot. If not, I may decided on a Mercedes or Audi or something else.

    You did not say what kind of driving you do. Local mostly or open highway trips or commute on busy roads etc.?

    First ask yourself how important is Advance Cruise Control (TACC) to you on trips. Pretty much all new cars have the option for Advance Cruise Control. If you do not buy EAP you do not even get that feature. Based on my video watching, I think if used properly (mainly on freeways here in CA) the auto lane keeping assist seems to work very well. Also, auto lane change seems to work well as well with some quirkiness.
     
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  4. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    I was one of the few people that was in the situation of having ordered my car with AP1 right before the AP2 announcement was made. I was going to get the new AP2 hardware no matter what, as my car hadn't been built yet, but I had the option of leaving my order as/is and only getting AP1 functionality on the AP2 hardware, or upgrading to full EAP for an additional $2,500 I think. I have a lease, but I went ahead and paid the extra for EAP based on the promise that it would be rolled out by 12/31/16 (which I naively believed at the time).

    That was almost a year ago that I made that decision, and they still haven't released anything under EAP that differs from AP1 so my extra money has gone to waste. I'm not sure how much EAP will ever differ from what I had ordered originally on this hardware. To make matters worse I also bought FSD which I am now fairly sure was like flushing $3,000 down the toilet.
     
  5. PJFW8

    PJFW8 waiting impatiently for Model 3

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    Tesla's roll-out of EAP is a close call, but the overpromise of FSD back in 2016 is very troubling.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    There is no "E" in EAP yet. They've just barely got the functionality up to the prior version of AP, and it looks like they've stopped releasing any additional functionality while they focus on Model 3 production. At this point I am fairly certain I will be at least 1/2 way through my lease before any "Enhanced" functionality is ever released.
     
  7. TexLaw

    TexLaw Member

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    I very much enjoy EAP for highway driving. and I do not at all find it stressful. For long distance driving and bumper-to-bumper situations, it's quite wonderful. If I'm in town and on the highway, I often only activate the adaptive cruise control and not auto-steer, though, unless traffic is fairly light. Auto-steer in heavy but well flowing traffic is of limited use, unless you are content to stay in the same lane. I'd pony right up for a lease car.

    I've used EAP only a little bit for in-town, surface street driving, so I cannot really comment on that.

    There is no way in the world I would pay for FSD on a lease car.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. Tangible

    Tangible Member

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    (quoting a Tesla rep)

    It makes no sense to lump together AP1 and AP2 experience. It's different software running on different hardware. Those of us who late last year road tested an HW1 car and were sold a "vastly improved" HW2 car know this from bitter experience.

    Adaptive Cruise Control is a given for an expensive car in today's market. Tesla's version, TACC, panic brakes for shadows and overpasses, and fails to brake for stopped vehicles. Auto Steer, sadly admitting to be still in Beta 9 plus months after release to EAP customers, is even more erratic and dangerous. A vigilant driver can overcome most of the hazards that AP2 creates (except for,being rear-ended when it panic brakes), but if you're going to be vigilant you might as well drive yourself.

    Short answer, then: no, not worth it.
     
  9. stan23

    stan23 Member

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    I know some of these can be driver avoided, but it still is a pretty impressive system.

    I didn't think I wanted ESP, but now I love it. Using it in stop and go traffic is amazing.
     
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  10. Sawyer8888

    Sawyer8888 Member

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    This video is a great example of how well AP1 functions. You can tell because of the air vents in the dash. Newer Tesla's with AP2 have a mesh grill instead of the large vents. In my experience, AP2 does not work this well.
     
  11. _jal_

    _jal_ Member

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    I made this movie in response to another thread. This is the kind of stuff EAP will do that you have to constantly be vigilant about.



    The problem is that I became aware of the problem only because it did this when I wasn't anticipating it. :eek: I make this drive every day and it was fine until an update, and then it started to follow the tar line. So be aware of situations where AP could freak out and realize that you don't know the parameters that define those situations. So basically always be aware that AP could cause your car to change lanes automatically for instance.

    I don't use AP any more because I don't trust it. That being said, I too am leasing, and don't regret my inclusion of EAP. It did work through 17.17.4 and it may work again. Fwiw, the OA quote is bologna. EAP has put me in way more harrowing situations from which I have had to wrestle the car back than I have put myself in. I hope that Tesla doesn't believe what the OA wrote.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. oktane

    oktane Banned

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    I have found it works much better at night. I think this is because with reflectors/white lane markings the path is obvious. Tar lines and cracks won't be seen. High beams also make it better. If I go to low beam the car will swerve a little until it finds the lane again.
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. bytebuster

    bytebuster Member

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    Adaptive cruise control is a MUST. I want to upgrade my early 2013 model s for this feature alone. I use it on my audi all the time and it relieves a ton of stress when driving on the freeways. I tried Tesla's ACC and it's even better
     
  14. clostridium

    clostridium Member

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    There is little comparison because they are doing different things. An airplane autopilot is following some combo of course/altitude/speed hold and then you can plug in some navigation information that is just a series of points in space. The car autopilot is having to follow a path through the world that is not direct from each waypoint and based on the vagaries of road design.

    Furthermore, the car autopilot has to evade other cars. A plane autopilot doesn't do that unless there is one that is way more sophisticated than I am used to. There is a TCAS to show other aircraft (if they have a transponder) but the autopilot is not using that data to evade others. There is a TAWS to show terrain and obstacles but once again autopilots aren't following that information, just warning the pilot. Sure you can connect the autopilot to an approach (ILS or an LPV approach for example) but that's a path that is surveyed to be obstacle free and is really just a series of straight paths and/or waypoints in space. That's actually pretty simple. Planes have to deal with a z axis of course but that technical challenge is different from that of the car autopilot. Clearly an autolanding system for a large airliner is a pretty challenging engineering problem and pretty cool that it works so well but that's not something that you can directly compare to a car autopilot. The engineering problem has fundamental differences. They are both complex for different reasons.

    I'm not a pilot but I've been regularly flying as a crewmember in a DPIFR medical helicopter for more than 10 years so I know enough to make the comparison.
     
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  15. sdorn

    sdorn Director of Awesome

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    It is interesting to see how quickly other automakers are catching up to Tesla on autopilot features. Several main stream cars have both lane following and TACC or are rolling it out in their 2018 models. Tesla has effectively not improved their offering since the full features of AP1 were initially rolled out. I always assumed Tesla would keep improving at a pace that would make it difficult if not impossible for others to catch up but that isn't looking like the situation any longer.
     
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  16. Tangible

    Tangible Member

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    I've used ACC on at least five other makes and models, and they're all better than Tesla TACC. Wait till your Tesla slams on the brakes at 65 mph in response to a shadow on the road, with someone following too close behind you. Then you'll want to revisit your "even better" assessment.
     
  17. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

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    AP1 does this kind of thing all the time. I know several exact locations within my city that AP1 will always follow a tar line, spilled paint mark, sandblasted old lines, etc. instead of following the correct striped lane line.

    The difference is that I have 40K+ miles of AP1 experience and I'm completely used to it and expecting it.

    If you read this thread and other threads, AP2 users will give you the impression that AP1 is this flawless holy grail that they were promised and still don't have. Poppycock. :rolleyes: AP1 is no better in many of these situations.

    Having said that, the money I spent on AP1 is some of the best money I ever spent, and I cannot image driving a Tesla without it. And yes, I leased mine, and paid for AP1 in April 2015, 6 months before it was released in October 2015. And let's not forget that early AP1 was just as quirky and unreliable as early AP2 was.
     
  18. int-veh

    int-veh Member

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    Still unable to decide. Is there a statistic on the percent of buyers who buy EAP/AP2?
     
  19. _jal_

    _jal_ Member

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  20. azmodls

    azmodls Member

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    If you want TACC you need to buy EAP. I use TACC consistently for highway driving, especially nice in stop and go traffic. I have not gotten the "phantom" breaking since the more recent updates that others report . I also use full AP a lot on my commute. It allows me to keep a better eye on other traffic around me. If you mainly drive city streets, then maybe can do without.
     

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