EAP - Does it make sense at all on a lease?

[TLej]

However, many of the safety features including forward collision warning, blind spot warning, lane drift warning, etc. are part of the EAP upgrade if I understand correct. Shouldn't they be standard features for a $70K car? Also, it seems some of those basic safety features are yet not functional.

I'm leasing a 90D that I got at the end of Dec/15 and I didn't get Autopilot, so I can't say for sure about current models, but the collision warning, AEB, blind spot warning, lane drift are all standard on my car. AEB has been temporarily disabled on any HW2+ cars at the moment as far as I know.

 

[int-veh]

I'm leasing a 90D that I got at the end of Dec/15 and I didn't get Autopilot, so I can't say for sure about current models, but the collision warning, AEB, blind spot warning, lane drift are all standard on my car. AEB has been temporarily disabled on any HW2+ cars at the moment as far as I know.

Ok, so based on the Tesla Owners Manual, and their Autopilot web page that lists the standard features, I take the following essential ADAS features comes standard:
- Lane Assist (blind spot, lane departure warnings, steering interventions)
- Collision Avoidance Assist (Forward collision warning, Automatic emergency braking)
- Speed Assist (Detects Speed Limits and Warnings)
- Auto High Beams

Good! I'm happy with these features. No EAP needed. Thanks everyone for helping with the decision. Now waiting for delivery in 10 days.

 

[Sawyer8888]

- Lane Assist (blind spot, lane departure warnings, steering interventions)
- Collision Avoidance Assist (Forward collision warning, Automatic emergency braking)
- Speed Assist (Detects Speed Limits and Warnings)
- Auto High Beams

Good! I'm happy with these features. No EAP needed. Thanks everyone for helping with the decision. Now waiting for delivery in 10 days.

All the best to you. I cannot disagree with your decision to opt out of EAP. As you probably already know, you will enjoy just about everything about your new Tesla.

Not to put a damper on things, however none of those four features that you're looking forward to using actually work very well in my opinion.

• I've turned off lane departure warnings (car shakes like a wheel is loose).
• Collision avoidance doesn't work well, if at all, and I beleive it was just turned off remotely by Tesla for all newer models. There are recent threads discussing this.
• Speed limit detection fluctuates in effectiveness with each software update. As far as I know, it is better on Teslas with first-generation hardware.
• Auto high beams are ultra sensitive. They revert to low beams almost every time there is anything shiny or reflective in view, such as a street sign or a parked car.

Again, you'll still love it. The car drives so smoothly and the instant acceleration never gets old. Take care and have fun.

 

[int-veh]

Collision avoidance doesn't work well, if at all, and I beleive it was just turned off remotely by Tesla for all newer models. There are recent threads discussing this.

Is this true? This'd be a big red flag after all the drama around Consumer Reports re-rating MS to top after verifying AEB works as stated.

 

[Economite]

Enhanced Auto Pilot is the safest form of driving on the road. For the thousands of clients that use AP everyday there will of course be a few where keyboard warriors who may have used AP incorrectly or in an unadvised situation.

This statement from the Telsa salesperson is pretty incredible.

 

[oktane]

There is little comparison because they are doing different things. An airplane autopilot is following some combo of course/altitude/speed hold and then you can plug in some navigation information that is just a series of points in space. The car autopilot is having to follow a path through the world that is not direct from each waypoint and based on the vagaries of road design.

Furthermore, the car autopilot has to evade other cars. A plane autopilot doesn't do that unless there is one that is way more sophisticated than I am used to. There is a TCAS to show other aircraft (if they have a transponder) but the autopilot is not using that data to evade others. There is a TAWS to show terrain and obstacles but once again autopilots aren't following that information, just warning the pilot. Sure you can connect the autopilot to an approach (ILS or an LPV approach for example) but that's a path that is surveyed to be obstacle free and is really just a series of straight paths and/or waypoints in space. That's actually pretty simple. Planes have to deal with a z axis of course but that technical challenge is different from that of the car autopilot. Clearly an autolanding system for a large airliner is a pretty challenging engineering problem and pretty cool that it works so well but that's not something that you can directly compare to a car autopilot. The engineering problem has fundamental differences. They are both complex for different reasons.

I'm not a pilot but I've been regularly flying as a crewmember in a DPIFR medical helicopter for more than 10 years so I know enough to make the comparison.

Of course the functionality and feature set is vastly different for obvious reasons. I never implied or stated otherwise. The point is that certified aircraft autopilots are tested to the extreme degree and work flawlessly within design parameters. There is no guesswork as to the behavior, it's well documented in the manual. Every last detail is tested. This is a polar opposite to Tesla's approach. You never quite know what the auto pilot is going to do. It's as if you select an altitude to descend down to, but 2 out of 10 times the autopilot will bust that attitude. Even core simple functions are not validated. Of course this type of behavior would render an airplane autopilot useless.

 

[sdorn]

Is this true? This'd be a big red flag after all the drama around Consumer Reports re-rating MS to top after verifying AEB works as stated.

Tesla Turns off Automatic Emergency Braking in Some Newer Models

 

[clostridium]

Of course the functionality and feature set is vastly different for obvious reasons. I never implied or stated otherwise. The point is that certified aircraft autopilots are tested to the extreme degree and work flawlessly within design parameters. There is no guesswork as to the behavior, it's well documented in the manual. Every last detail is tested. This is a polar opposite to Tesla's approach. You never quite know what the auto pilot is going to do. It's as if you select an altitude to descend down to, but 2 out of 10 times the autopilot will bust that attitude. Even core simple functions are not validated. Of course this type of behavior would render an airplane autopilot useless.

It's funny, you keep saying that they are different yet you go back to comparing them. The comparison is essentially meaningless. If my cars autopilot was just supposed to steer the car straight to a compass bearing and speed I'm sure it would do fine. As it turns out there are roads to follow that aren't straight.

 

[int-veh]

Took delivery today. All good so far. Very good experience with my OA - found me a good inventory vehicle at an awesome lease price.

A great time to lease a Tesla right now due to huge price adjustments on inventory/demo vehicles with some miles lowering monthly payments significantly. PM me if you need my OA's contact.

 

[TLej]

Congratulations!

 

[int-veh]

BTW, EAP is absolutely a must. It is just the thing that makes it the most advanced car you can buy in the market today. It is pushing the envelope quite a bit and therefore, has many kinks to it. Just cant stop using it and experiencing it in action. I take back all I stated before in this thread and recommend anyone getting a Tesla to opt for the EAP - an absolute must, Semi-autonomous driving is here to stay and soon will become mainstream.

 

[oktane]

It's funny, you keep saying that they are different yet you go back to comparing them. The comparison is essentially meaningless. If my cars autopilot was just supposed to steer the car straight to a compass bearing and speed I'm sure it would do fine. As it turns out there are roads to follow that aren't straight.

Because all certified aircraft autopilots can do is steer a compass bearing, I gotcha. Nice try amigo. Oh, and I’m contrasting them, not comparing. I’d be comparing them if I were pointing out the similarities, which I’m obviously not. Would you take a ride in an aircraft powered by AP2?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Would you take a ride in an aircraft powered by AP2?

No.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Speed limit detection fluctuates in effectiveness with each software update. As far as I know, it is better on Teslas with first-generation hardware.

AP2/2.5 hardware does not have speed limit detection at all, in the sense of detecting speed signs, at this stage.

All it has is a database of speed limits.

AP1 does detect speed signs.

 

[clostridium]

Because all certified aircraft autopilots can do is steer a compass bearing, I gotcha. Nice try amigo. Oh, and I’m contrasting them, not comparing. I’d be comparing them if I were pointing out the similarities, which I’m obviously not. Would you take a ride in an aircraft powered by AP2?

Actually it really isn't so obvious what you are trying to do.

In response to your last sentence - that is a totally irrelevant question. I wouldn't drive a car powered by AP2 either since it wouldn't get very far. AP2's power output is totally not enough to move a car. Assuming that you meant "a plane with AP2 as an autopilot" - also an irrelevant question, how about these alternative questions for your:
Would you drive a car where the cruise control was actually the auto-throttle for an airliner?
Would you let an auto-land system for an airliner park your car?

What's so nutty about this is that I'm not sure that we greatly disagree on the actual question which is satisfaction with AP2. I just don't particularly like your persistent use of irrelevant comparisons to try to make your point.

 

[oktane]

Actually it really isn't so obvious what you are trying to do.

In response to your last sentence - that is a totally irrelevant question. I wouldn't drive a car powered by AP2 either since it wouldn't get very far. AP2's power output is totally not enough to move a car. Assuming that you meant "a plane with AP2 as an autopilot" - also an irrelevant question, how about these alternative questions for your:
Would you drive a car where the cruise control was actually the auto-throttle for an airliner?
Would you let an auto-land system for an airliner park your car?

What's so nutty about this is that I'm not sure that we greatly disagree on the actual question which is satisfaction with AP2. I just don't particularly like your persistent use of irrelevant comparisons to try to make your point.

I see what you did there. touché

 

[mal_tsla]

AP2/2.5 hardware does not have speed limit detection at all, in the sense of detecting speed signs, at this stage.

All it has is a database of speed limits.

Why not? I have an app on my iPhone that can see and solve Sudoku puzzles. Just using the phone's camera, built by some individual developer out there.

Why can't Tesla implement a computer vision solution that sees speed limit signs like AP1 can? At this point Tesla could put an iPhone in the dash, have it look at a video of what the AP camera sees, and implement this in a matter of hours.

Something is very wrong with this project.

 

[Destiny1701]

Why not? I have an app on my iPhone that can see and solve Sudoku puzzles. Just using the phone's camera, built by some individual developer out there.

Why can't Tesla implement a computer vision solution that sees speed limit signs like AP1 can? At this point Tesla could put an iPhone in the dash, have it look at a video of what the AP camera sees, and implement this in a matter of hours.

Something is very wrong with this project.

Probably some copyright infringement with the breakup with Mobileye I’d guess. Tesla may not be allowed to mimic the same tech as Mobileye and may be legally bound to have to develop brand new algorithms and tech to achieve the same functionality. Which MEye likely developed as the most effective solution already...leaving tesla to figure out how to duplicate with a lesser form of tech or software. Who knows!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why not? I have an app on my iPhone that can see and solve Sudoku puzzles. Just using the phone's camera, built by some individual developer out there.

Why can't Tesla implement a computer vision solution that sees speed limit signs like AP1 can? At this point Tesla could put an iPhone in the dash, have it look at a video of what the AP camera sees, and implement this in a matter of hours.

Something is very wrong with this project.

I was just commenting what it does (and does not) do at this moment.

I do believe AP2 has tons of potential that may be realized down the road of course, traffic-sign recognition included. The unexpectedly slow and haphazard progress over the past year has been disheartening, though.

 

[int-veh]

After trying AP2 on 101 and 880 in SF Bay Area, it performs as expected. Really fascinating it works so well. I've not encountered any issues so far.

Only one notable minor discrepancy so far, it set a wrong AP max speed limit on a 65mph limit highway. It showed the correct speed limit on the screen. But the AP max showed and took 73 even though I've set the relative offset as +5 miles. Anyone else come across this?