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EAP [enhanced autopilot] is back
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DenkiJidousha
Member
Given on paper EAP does that vast majority of what FSD currently offers in the UK, it is half tempting...
How is "Nav on Auto pilot" and "Auto lane change" on most dual carriageways and 2 lane motorways? (Being up in Scotland that's more important to me than 3+ lane motorways)
How is "Nav on Auto pilot" and "Auto lane change" on most dual carriageways and 2 lane motorways? (Being up in Scotland that's more important to me than 3+ lane motorways)
I think it's a miniscule minority of people for whom summon will do that with any consistency in the UK. I'm another who's tried it on and off over 18 months and only rarely got it to work. However it does seem to be fundamentally a software/regulation issue, because it genuinely seems to work in the USA in scenarios far more difficult than just a roll into/out of a parking space.
Phantom braking, crap wipers and AP in the rain however, I'm skeptical as to whether our issues there can be solved without some hardware change as well.
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
If you do road trips, get EAP.
It's not going to evolve to FSD, but you can upgrade to FSD in the future.
For me, auto lane change I do use a fair bit, but I drive a lot on motorways at less busy times. You should look up how European regs define the time periods within a manoeuvre, which make the process unnaturally slow, so it's basically unusable in any traffic for that reason. Plus there's the tendency to abort if there's a lorry in the lane to the left of the one you want to move left into. TBH if the shift from AP to a manual lane change and back to AP was more natural and free of bing bongs I probably wouldn't use auto lane change until they speed it up.
NoA, which really just adds motorway junctions, is for me an application for the same system which has more limited use. Although it's essentially the same thing as auto lane change I don't think it's at all "useful" in its current form. So many junctions have different reasons it doesn't really work. Also, it takes predefined speeds like a sudden slow to 60, which is very situation dependent so can be unexpected and unnatural.
It’s crap! Seriously pretty much anything else you can think of buying for £3400 will be more useful or fun.
DenkiJidousha
Member
Thanks - I've turned on the autosteer beta, and will try that on the dual carriageway before spending any money. After all, I may hate the feel of the car steering itself.
Auto steer actually works very well. But the constant nagging to hold the wheel can be irritating. Especially if you hold it properly with 2 hands, as it then often thinks you are not holding the wheel. It actually rewards bad practice like holding with one hand at the bottom. But the auto steering itself works. It just needs a better way of detecting that you are holding the wheel. Having to actually load the steering up slightly kind of defeats the point.
MrBadger
Badger out
Auto lane change, when not on a motorway, is a bit of a mystery. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't due to user error. Unfortunately, where it decides to work seems to change from release to release.
I would hope that you are OK with it on two lane motorways, but for major dual carriageways, threat it as a bonus if it works.
As for NoA. Obviously its suggestions need to be confirmed, so doesn't really add anything that auto lane changes doesn't - some of its recommendations can be, shall we say, a little baffling. It does however allow on and off ramp without confirmation, but it always indicates for the off ramp far too late, and certainly until recently (I have not tried since at least early November) if you manage an off ramp without having to change your pants, its a bonus. As for on ramps, they remain a total mystery to me. Both I would say are only for the adventurous when no one else is in the car and no other vehicles in the vicinity.
But when things do work, ie limiting it to auto lane change on motorway, its magical. Except as above hints, for the nags.
I'll confess, I'm a bit jealous. EAP was made available again shortly after I purchased my M3 back in July of last year but only for 12 days and I spent too long thinking about it and missed my chance. I truly hope that bringing it back in Europe and the UK is a sign that it will return here in North America as well.
JupiterMan
Active Member
I agree it is odd, there are many dual lane roads near me (mainly in towns) , where auto lane change never works. On some major A roads and all motorways I've used it is fine.
I keep hoping that some of this is a mapping issue that it will get updated, but as we know, Tesla maps have not been updated for well over a year now....having said that, I think I remember reading somewhere that auto lane change in UK is prohibited on any roads that allow bicycles.... or maybe I was imagining it?
Other NOA issues for me:
- the need to tug the wheel to confirm in control before a change is activated (sometimes I'm too heavy handed and it disengages)
- the UNECE delay between indicating and lane change is very annoying, sometimes I don't use it as know the delay will cause an abort.
- because of the UNECE delay, you don't know whether it knows you are in control and will activate lane change, so I sometimes continually nudge the wheel (some light indicator or "ping" would be welcome here).
- On a three lane stretch, lane changes whilst overtaking lorries in the slow lane also cause confusion and refused/aborted changes - it confuses which lane the lorry is in and freaks out, always.
hoping some of the Driving on city streets code will filter in the background to UK/EU to resolve some of this, and that UNECE will meet more regularly and actually allow innovation.
Pleased I have it though - I just love this kind of thing!
drivingmrte5la
Member
When you folks talking about phantom braking, are you talking about a noticeable ‘stomp’ on the brake pedal? I have had that a fair few times on regular roads but never on the motorway.
HOWEVER...
What I do notice on nearly every trip where I’m on the motorway is that the car sometimes refuses to overtake cars in the slow lane - just like how it won’t undertake cars in the faster lanes.
I’ve put this down to the UK/RHD-based driving models taking as much training data from the US/LHD-based datasets as Tesla deem suitable, and it sometimes getting confused.
I was one of the muppets (no offence to fellow muppets) who put money into buying FSD instead of putting the then £5k into Tesla stock. No update the car’s received since August ‘19 has fixed this.
Also, my tuppence on the auto lane change is that it’s not worth it. There’s really nothing auto about it (at least here, yet) - all it does is chime and ask you to indicate, then it moves as long as it can do so within ~5s. I will say this though, the responsiveness of that indicator press to action is MUCH greater since one of the summer (IIRC) updates. It can still be over cautious though and needs manual intervention about 20% of the time.
HOWEVER...
What I do notice on nearly every trip where I’m on the motorway is that the car sometimes refuses to overtake cars in the slow lane - just like how it won’t undertake cars in the faster lanes.
I’ve put this down to the UK/RHD-based driving models taking as much training data from the US/LHD-based datasets as Tesla deem suitable, and it sometimes getting confused.
I was one of the muppets (no offence to fellow muppets) who put money into buying FSD instead of putting the then £5k into Tesla stock. No update the car’s received since August ‘19 has fixed this.
Also, my tuppence on the auto lane change is that it’s not worth it. There’s really nothing auto about it (at least here, yet) - all it does is chime and ask you to indicate, then it moves as long as it can do so within ~5s. I will say this though, the responsiveness of that indicator press to action is MUCH greater since one of the summer (IIRC) updates. It can still be over cautious though and needs manual intervention about 20% of the time.
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
I admire your honesty, lol!
I remember just before the Model 3 was launched in the UK and all the discussions about whether or not to buy FSD. So many Tesla "noobs" (as my 11 year old daughter would call them) simply refused to listen to those who had already experienced so-called "FSD" in the S/X models.
I am still massively kicking myself for not buying Tesla stock last year though! I was all set to buy in at $250 (before the share split), but had trouble purchasing the stock through my shitty HSBC invest account and didn't get around to sorting it out or opening a better share dealing account elsewhere. I really should have made the effort. Ah well, there's always Rivian or Nio lol!
Louis0w
Member
It shouldn't be forgotten, the benefit gained from purchasing upgrades can also be measured relative to the owners personal circumstances, ownership route, enjoyment received and brand 'buy'in'. For me, I purchased FSD when I bought my M3P in Sept'19. This was after dropping a £2k deposit back in 2016 - and then furiously saving during the next 3 years, so I was fortunate enough to make a full cash purchase. I don't consider myself a 'muppet' for purchasing FSD, and nor should anyone else if they can reasonably justify the £ investment, are aware of its limitations and are not only comparing it to a 'cost/value' measure. Despite the faults and constraints of FSD/EAP (most of which in the UK are due to UNECE, not Tesla), I'm constantly amazed by the cars capabilities, more so when I see improvements via updates. Is FSD/EAP worth the money if only considering the cost to purchase? maybe not - but worth is also measured by more personal, less tangible benefits; all of which have made FSD an enjoyable and worthwhile upgrade for me.
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