EAP Maxed Out?

[NeverFollow]

I haven't yet used the Tesla AutoPark, but I beleive that it relies on other car parked to be able to localise a paking spot using proximity sensors.

In an other way, the 2018 Leaf's system uses cameras and can park automatically without any cars nearby.

A combination of both systems would be interesting.

Note: Reading the above Smart Summon tweet from Elon Musk, it seems that this is what will be coming in the future.

New Nissan Leaf ProPilot auto parking test - 2018 02 06 - Bjørn Nyland

 

[NeverFollow]

Actually, that promise to drive around the lot...blah, blah, blah, was promised for the original AP1
along with summon automatically going from your closed garage to meet you at the street,
autonomous driving across country, and many other things.

Spoiler alert - it never happened. Don't get your hopes up.

Why? This not impossible to do so.

Faraday Future's FF 91 Car Park Itself - Inverse - Jan 4, 2017

 

[ChrML]

Smarter AutoPark/Summon using cameras will definitely come to EAP. That will allow to park on empty spots etc...

Smart Summon, like being able to summon car into parking lot to find a spot and park itself is definitely not a EAP feature, but FSD.

 

[u00mem9]

Really?!? I am kinda surprised considering that AP1 did not have the hardware necessary to do that. In any case, AP2 cars do have the hardware for it and with V9, the software is now using all the cameras necessary to do it. So I think it is a realistic goal now.

Try reflection. When AP7 is released, you will have a better understanding of why a couple rear facing cameras and short range ultrasonics were never enough to prevent backing over babies and running into things. They are already discussing AP3. Does Tesla need to make a press release explicitly stating they were WRONG about the hardware needed to support EAP, unattended Summon, FSD, etc? Seems pretty obvious they are STILL wrong.

There is a reason MB has radar surrounding the vehicle, and still doesn't try to initiate lane changes, etc. Tesla will figure it out...it just may be when they are flipping through their Waymo owners manual.

 

[diplomat33]

Try reflection. When AP7 is released, you will have a better understanding of why a couple rear facing cameras and short range ultrasonics were never enough to prevent backing over babies and running into things. They are already discussing AP3. Does Tesla need to make a press release explicitly stating they were WRONG about the hardware needed to support EAP, unattended Summon, FSD, etc? Seems pretty obvious they are STILL wrong.

If you have good enough camera vision, rear cameras and ultra sonic sensors is good enough.

 

[ChrML]

Try reflection. When AP7 is released, you will have a better understanding of why a couple rear facing cameras and short range ultrasonics were never enough to prevent backing over babies and running into things. They are already discussing AP3. Does Tesla need to make a press release explicitly stating they were WRONG about the hardware needed to support EAP, unattended Summon, FSD, etc? Seems pretty obvious they are STILL wrong.

There is a reason MB has radar surrounding the vehicle, and still doesn't try to initiate lane changes, etc. Tesla will figure it out...it just may be when they are flipping through their Waymo owners manual.

How would rear radars prevent the car from backing over babies lying on the ground?

 

[Az_Rael]

Really?!? I am kinda surprised considering that AP1 did not have the hardware necessary to do that.

Oh, it was better than that. This is what was on the blog post for the release of software 7.1:

"Eventually, your Tesla will be able to drive anywhere across the country to meet you, charging itself along the way. It will sync with your calendar to know exactly when to arrive."
Summon Your Tesla from Your Phone

Turns out "your Tesla" wasn't the one you had when getting the 7.1 update, it was the one you would buy sometime in the future.

 

[u00mem9]

How would rear radars prevent the car from backing over babies lying on the ground?

Wow. Try reading my statement again.

MB doesn’t claim that your car will come pick you without backing over babies...that would be reckless.

There is a logical ‘duke boys pond jump’ apparent in your summary question. Smh.

 

[diplomat33]

Oh, it was better than that. This is what was on the blog post for the release of software 7.1:

"Eventually, your Tesla will be able to drive anywhere across the country to meet you, charging itself along the way. It will sync with your calendar to know exactly when to arrive."
Summon Your Tesla from Your Phone

Turns out "your Tesla" wasn't the one you had when getting the 7.1 update, it was the one you would buy sometime in the future.

Keyword "eventually". The blog is clearly talking about the far future, not an immediate reality with V7.1. Tesla has long held the goal of their cars being full self-driving at some point in the future. And after V7.1, Tesla released AP2 hardware to move their cars closer to that goal. And now, Tesla has released V9 and later will release the AP3 chip. It's all designed to eventually achieve that reality of self-driving. Tesla is making progress towards than goal.

 

[Az_Rael]

Keyword "eventually". The blog is clearly talking about the far future, not an immediate reality with V7.1. Tesla has long held the goal of their cars being full self-driving at some point in the future. And after V7.1, Tesla released AP2 hardware to move their cars closer to that goal. And now, Tesla has released V9 and later will release the AP3 chip. It's all designed to eventually achieve that reality of self-driving. Tesla is making progress towards than goal.

So the question becomes which of their current statements about future AP capabilities wont be delivered with hardware 2/2.5/3? It is impossible to guess today, but maybe when we are riding in our hardware 10 cars we can look back and say, well, obviously those statements about Smart Summon driving around private parking lots by itself was talk for future cars, not the ones we had then.

 

[diplomat33]

So the question becomes which of their current statements about future AP capabilities wont be delivered with hardware 2/2.5/3? It is impossible to guess today, but maybe when we are riding in our hardware 10 cars we can look back and say, well, obviously those statements about Smart Summon driving around private parking lots by itself was talk for future cars, not the ones we had then.

True, we don't know 100% that AP2/2.5/3 will be good enough. But AP3 certainly gets us a heck of a lot closer to FSD than AP1 ever could. It is obvious that AP3 with its 8 cameras and ultra fast FSD designed computer chip is much closer to FSD than AP1 which only had forward cameras and a pretty slow chip (compared to today).

Karpathy even said that they have a lot of the NNs done, they are just limited by hardware now. So Tesla has a lot more of the software for FSD ready. Presumably, the AP3 chip which will be like 200 times faster, will be a huge step towards getting computer hardware fast enough to handle all the NNs that they need for FSD. Sure, maybe the AP3 chip will still not be good enough, but it is a huge step in the right direction. Eventually, the hardware will be good enough and much sooner than people think. I don't know if you are being hyperbolic when you say hardware 10 but FSD will come much sooner than hardware 10. How do I know? Because the hardware and software is improving at an exponential rate. The AP3 chip should already be fast enough to handle most if not all of the FSD requirements. So even if it is not, then AP4 will be good enough for sure. So, FSD will happen long before we get to AP10.

 

[Naonak]

While I agree with the premise of your post, I don't remember that driving around the parking lot was EVER promised on AP1. Just to meet you at the door of your house.

I was sold the driving around the parking lot bit. Granted, that was verbally by the "sales" person, but they had to get that information from somewhere.

 

[Magellan55]

Keep in mind driving 5 mph around a parking lot is a lot easier than driving in city traffic, red lights, etc. Makes perfect sense to me as first baby-step in FSD. Actually it's the main reason I bought FSD - so one day it could drop me off at my building and go find a parking spot instead of me having to walk so far to get to work. And come pick me up too.

Probably the biggest annoyance (for other drivers) is how pokey it will be feeling it's way around the lot. Though the whole "who is liable if the car hits something/someone" will be interesting.

 

[Kruegmeister]

How would rear radars prevent the car from backing over babies lying on the ground?

Can't stop laughing everytime I read this.
I don't see anyone leaving a Baby lying in the parking lot.
I think between the Cameras & Ultrasonics it should be able to safely park and safely find the driver when leaving. It seems to build a pretty accurate perimeter on the display everytime I back up to the Rocks in my landscaping, the bush and/or pot when I turn around to back up into my charging spot. Now as far as any babies lying around...

 

[u00mem9]

I guess some here are unaware that AP1 Summons used to attempt more elaborate maneuvers than the current capability of ‘straight while someone holds a dead-man switch’.

Tesla confidence means nothing...they were confident AP1 could do a 3 point turn out of a parking garage, until YouTube videos of the car bouncing off objects caused them the pull the functionality. Most of us won’t even let the car try to Autopark in a parallel spot because of the high rate of curbed wheels and other mistakes that cause damage.

If the system was capable, they wouldn’t need you to watch it and take responsibility. As long as each release continues to require constant supervision, it’s just an unreliable parlor trick. These cars will never drop you off at work. The end. Some cars, someday, but not a 2016-2018 Tesla. Ever.

Sorry.

 

[diplomat33]

Getting back to the OP question, I do think that EAP is close to maxed out now. Nav on AP added the last features we were waiting for, namely highway transition, on off ramp and auto lane change to pass slower traffic. The only thing left for EAP now is improving Nav on AP to make the features work better and adding Advanced Summon. And we know Advanced Summon should be coming in a few months. Over the next couple years, I think we will still see general improvements to EAP but no radically new features. And when the AP3 chip comes out next year, I think we will see Tesla shift focus to FSD features, since EAP will be "feature complete".

 

[Bladerskb]

Getting back to the OP question, I do think that EAP is close to maxed out now. Nav on AP added the last features we were waiting for, namely highway transition, on off ramp and auto lane change to pass slower traffic. The only thing left for EAP now is improving Nav on AP to make the features work better and adding Advanced Summon. And we know Advanced Summon should be coming in a few months. Over the next couple years, I think we will still see general improvements to EAP but no radically new features. And when the AP3 chip comes out next year, I think we will see Tesla shift focus to FSD features, since EAP will be "feature complete".

Something that works 5% of the time is maxed out? Wow that's news!

 

[luvnMyTS]

I"m going to put my vote in that every feature that requires a driver be present, should be done under EAP. Auto Pilot is known as a driver assist feature that requires the driver to be attentive at all times.

FSD should be reserved only for what it says - Full Self Driving. It says exactly what it is and for Tesla to stand by it's word, features will not be rolled out incrementally for FSD. It will be released once it is ready to provide "Full Self Driving". EAP on the other hand, is a great testing ground for Tesla to get cars ready for FSD and requiring the driver to be present as backup at all times.

 

[u00mem9]

I"m going to put my vote in that every feature that requires a driver be present, should be done under EAP. Auto Pilot is known as a driver assist feature that requires the driver to be attentive at all times.

FSD should be reserved only for what it says - Full Self Driving. It says exactly what it is and for Tesla to stand by it's word, features will not be rolled out incrementally for FSD. It will be released once it is ready to provide "Full Self Driving". EAP on the other hand, is a great testing ground for Tesla to get cars ready for FSD and requiring the driver to be present as backup at all times.

I'm sorry, but EAP that requires the driver to confirm a lane change does NOT deliver on the promised feature. Tesla has already explained that the intent was that it would happen automatically (as described at the time, and within the last 2 months)...it just didn't work. They had to implement the driver confirmation because the system didn't safely achieve the intent...the SOLD intent.

You may accept their effort as 'good enough', but that goodwill doesn't suddenly make it true that the promised capability has been met. It hasn't.

 

[diplomat33]

Something that works 5% of the time is maxed out? Wow that's news!

What exactly are you referring to? EAP works far better than 5% of the time or are you referring to a specific feature? I have V9 EAP (no Nav on AP for me yet) but all the current features of EAP that I have work 99% of the time for me.