EAP Return to US

[Knightshade]

Unfortunately everything is relative.

Well in the original version it was worthless except as a tech demo.

Failed to detect a spot most of the time, even then only if it was between 2 other parked cars, and super slow to then park in it.


The vision version easily and routinely detects spots even with NO other cars (it sees parking spot lines)- and while it's not QUITE as fast as a human, it's close enough to be worth bothering with.

Even my wife, who has been a pretty tough critic of many things FSDBeta has done, was impressed with how usable autopark is now.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

lol. $6k. meanwhile SuperCruise is a $2500 option in Cadillacs and BlueCruise even less. Unlike EAP both are actually true "hands-free" assistance systems...

 

[ElectricNerd]

There's a 2022 Chevy Bolt EUV in transit at the local Chevy place but I can't convince my wife to let us get it as a second EV as she says the design looks like a roller skate to her. It has the SuperCruise option on it and I've been curious how different the GM and Ford options are to Teslas.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Even my wife, who has been a pretty tough critic of many things FSDBeta has done, was impressed with how usable autopark is now.

I'll have to try it. I saw the videos and chose not to bother. Too busy testing out FSDb (b), lol.

How does it do with parallel parking (that's a much more useful application)?

 

[whitex]

Easy money, no installation, no maintenance, just flip a switch and upload to the Tesla. Still not worth $6K.. just my opinion.

The more important part is that they can claim that EAP has been delivered, so they can officially recognize the revenue (i.e. they don't owe anything more to the people who bought it, no free AP hardware updates, etc).

The primary reason EAP was eliminated before was because FSD had absolutely no features available years after Elon sold it to people, so shifting EAP feature to FSD allowed Tesla to claim progress delivering FSD - oh look, FSD went from 0% to 50% done with nothing but moving featured from EAP to FSD. Now they are bringing back EAP with features they can claim are working, so they can claim the revenue.

 

[Knightshade]

lol. $6k. meanwhile SuperCruise is a $2500 option in Cadillacs

No, it's not.

First- to get it as an option at all you need to move up $10,000-$20,000 in model trim. THEN pay $2500. THEN pay a monthly fee after a few years on top.
(the trim upgrade cost is a bit lower to get it on the Bolt EUV, but only the old version is available and it's still way more than $2500 net)

Second- the base supercuise that was offered on most cars (before they stopped selling it at all due to chip shortages) was the equivalent of basic AP. No lane changing, no NoA, nothing at all except autosteer in a single lane and TACC.

Basic AP is "free" on Teslas.

(don't worry though, "select" 21 and newer models will be eligible to "upgrade" to one that allows lane changing at least... everyone else from previous years or even non-select 21 and newer folks are out of luck-no word on upgrade cost yet)

And caddys system only can be turned on on a tiny fraction of pre-mapped roads.

 

[2101Guy]

There's a 2022 Chevy Bolt EUV in transit at the local Chevy place but I can't convince my wife to let us get it as a second EV as she says the design looks like a roller skate to her. It has the SuperCruise option on it and I've been curious how different the GM and Ford options are to Teslas.

Supercruise? Did you pay $20k to upgrade to the next level Bolt first, as reported here?

 

[Knightshade]

There's a 2022 Chevy Bolt EUV in transit at the local Chevy place but I can't convince my wife to let us get it as a second EV as she says the design looks like a roller skate to her. It has the SuperCruise option on it and I've been curious how different the GM and Ford options are to Teslas.

The EUV supercruise is the "old" caddy product.

It only does TACC and single-lane autosteer. Equivalent to Teslas free basic AP (except it works on vastly fewer roads- but does not do a hands-check on the steering wheel).

Oh, and like the caddy one, it comes with 3 years of 'free' service after which there's a monthly fee on top of the original cost of the option.


And it's not available on the base model EUV, you need to pay $4500 to get the higher trim one, THEN pay another $2200 for supercruise.

So $6700. Plus a monthly fee after 3 years.

For the same 2 ADAS systems Tesla includes free.

But without any option to ever improve them, while Tesla will sell you better features, for less than the $6700 supercruise cost.

 

[S&B's M3]

For 90%+ of owners, subscription model is the way to go when you need it for longer trips.

Assuming that you can subscribe and unsubscribe over and over you want to.

 

[ElectricNerd]

The EUV supercruise is the "old" caddy product.

It only does TACC and single-lane autosteer. Equivalent to Teslas free basic AP (except it works on vastly fewer roads- but does not do a hands-check on the steering wheel).

Oh, and like the caddy one, it comes with 3 years of 'free' service after which there's a monthly fee on top of the original cost of the option.


And it's not available on the base model EUV, you need to pay $4500 to get the higher trim one, THEN pay another $2200 for supercruise.

So $6700. Plus a monthly fee after 3 years.

For the same 2 ADAS systems Tesla includes free.

But without any option to ever improve them, while Tesla will sell you better features, for less than the $6700 supercruise cost.

The biggest pull the Bolt has right now is it's half the cost of a Model Y. Yes I know Tesla is superior when it comes to features and especially the charging network. In fact, the charging network is what really drew us to Tesla and why we really wanted to order a Model Y to go with our 3, but they are so expensive right now that even if we traded in our Model 3 we would still be looking at bumping our monthly payment over $400 more just to make it work for a Y.

 

[whitex]

No, it's not.

First- to get it as an option at all you need to move up $10,000-$20,000 in model trim. THEN pay $2500. THEN pay a monthly fee after a few years on top.
(the trim upgrade cost is a bit lower to get it on the Bolt EUV, but only the old version is available and it's still way more than $2500 net)

You really cannot compare it this way. The way you are comparing it would be like saying the latest PC version of Call of Duty costs thousands of dollars because it requires that you own a gaming PC.

If Tesla came out with a $25K stripped down EV with smaller battery and without AP hardware, you wouldn't say "EAP cost is upgrade is to upgrade to new trim + $6K". Perhaps you could compare cost of Bolt with SuperCruise vs. Model 3 with EAP, but even that would not be an apples to apples comparison. So, you're back to comparing the incremental option cost, even though it's only available to people who already get the minimum required car+trim. Note that the higher trim includes other upgrades, not just the option to enable SuperCruise for example. So think cost of ADAS enablement on mid or highest trim.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

plus Ford's BlueCruise is comparable to SuperCruise and the Mach E / F150 Lightning will get it... but yeah... FSD Beta at $12k is a steal... won't even let you legally drive handsfree.

 

[2101Guy]

The biggest pull the Bolt has right now is it's half the cost of a Model Y. Yes I know Tesla is superior when it comes to features and especially the charging network. In fact, the charging network is what really drew us to Tesla and why we really wanted to order a Model Y to go with our 3, but they are so expensive right now that even if we traded in our Model 3 we would still be looking at bumping our monthly payment over $400 more just to make it work for a Y.

Question. Do you charge often away from home? If so, totally get your point about the charging network. For me, over the past 1.5 years in my wifes Y? We have charged exactly twice away from home. So for our needs, the network aspect is pretty much a non issue.

 

[Knightshade]

You really cannot compare it this way. The way you are comparing it would be like saying the latest PC version of Call of Duty costs thousands of dollars because it requires that you own a gaming PC.

...what?

If all you want is supercruise on a base GM car- the cost is what I said it is.

Not sure where you're going with the video game analogy there.

If Tesla came out with a $25K stripped down EV with smaller battery and without AP hardware, you wouldn't say "EAP cost is upgrade is to upgrade to new trim + $6K".

[

Well yes, I would- because that would literally be the cost to get AP on that vehicle.

Perhaps you could compare cost of Bolt with SuperCruise vs. Model 3 with EAP, but even that would not be an apples to apples comparison.

Yes, because EAP offers vastly more functionality.

As pointed out, the supercruise offered on the Bolt (and even most caddys ever made) is comparable to basic autopilot.

Which comes free on every trim of every Tesla they make today.

So, you're back to comparing the incremental option cost, even though it's only available to people who already get the minimum required car+trim. Note that the higher trim includes other upgrades, not just the option to enable SuperCruise for example.

I mean... kind of. You get nicer seats. Also- hilariously- one of only other "upgrades" in the higher trim is... adaptive cruise control. Which means your $2200 on TOP of the $4500 ONLY gets you autosteer in a single lane-- since the higher trim already got you TACC.

Plus after 3 years you get hit with a monthly fee too.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

...what?

If all you want is supercruise on a base GM car- the cost is what I said it is.

Not sure where you're going with the video game analogy there.




[

Well yes, I would- because that would literally be the cost to get AP on that vehicle.





Yes, because EAP offers vastly more functionality.

As pointed out, the supercruise offered on the Bolt (and even most caddys ever made) is comparable to basic autopilot.

Which comes free on every trim of every Tesla they make today.






I mean... kind of. You get nicer seats. Also- hilariously- one of only other "upgrades" in the higher trim is... adaptive cruise control. Which means your $2200 on TOP of the $4500 ONLY gets you autosteer in a single lane-- since the higher trim already got you TACC.

Plus after 3 years you get hit with a monthly fee too.

yeah. hands-free legally allowed vs. "keep your hands on the wheel at all times or the system will push out alerts and put you in timeout" ... *totally the same*

 

[ElectricNerd]

Question. Do you charge often away from home? If so, totally get your point about the charging network. For me, over the past 1.5 years in my wifes Y? We have charged exactly twice away from home. So for our needs, the network aspect is pretty much a non issue.

Our RAV4 Hybrid has been our family road trip vehicle but my wife and I took our Model 3 on a 700 mile round trip last week and I really liked how much cheaper it was to charge vs putting gas in a vehicle. I'm sold on EVs.

Other that a road trip the charging we do is 99% at home on a 14-50 outlet.

 

[Knightshade]

plus Ford's BlueCruise is comparable to SuperCruise and the Mach E / F150 Lightning will get it... but yeah... FSD Beta at $12k is a steal... won't even let you legally drive handsfree.

You mean the bluecruise that turns itself off on mild highway curves?

It's only 'comparable' to systems that actually work in that both are sold by car companies.

Plus, again, it doesn't do anything that the free basic AP on every Tesla sold does other than "not check for your hands on the wheel"

Which is a shame because it sure seems to need them a lot more often than Teslas system would

Ford's BlueCruise ADAS Gets Blunt Verdict From Sandy Munro

Sandy Munro tries out Ford's BlueCruise hands-free highway driving tech in a Mustang Mach-E and says there's a lot of room for improvement.

insideevs.com

his biggest surprise was when the system disengaged and required manual intervention in a curve, something that apparently happens in sharp curves for safety reasons, according to Billman. Mind you, none of those curves looked that sharp on camera.

 

[Knightshade]

yeah. hands-free legally allowed vs. "keep your hands on the wheel at all times or the system will push out alerts and put you in timeout" ... *totally the same*

Can you cite the law you think "legally allows" this?

Because AFAIK there isn't one.

Both are L2 ADAS systems that require a driver always paying attention.

There's no "law" that says what your hands need to do that is different for Tesla vs Ford.

 

[whitex]

Plus after 3 years you get hit with a monthly fee too.

Doesn't Tesla start charging monthly for advanced connectivity even sooner?

 

[whitex]

...what?

If all you want is supercruise on a base GM car- the cost is what I said it is.

Using your method of calculations, Tesla charges $16K for Überturbine Wheels, because that is what it would cost you to upgrade to those wheels if ordering Model 3 RWD - you'd get a higher trim car for that $16K but you say that does not subtract from your calculation of the cost of the wheels, because the higher trim is required. Those sure are some expensive wheels.