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EAP to FSD - bite the bullet now or risk it?

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I respect your review and just want to emphasize what is on offer is a FUTURE feature set at a discount price. Plus you get the incrementals.

New York May be able to ban Robotaxi service that commences inside the state, but I doubt the ban will last long. They may be able to ban FSD from being SOLD in the stare but will probably not be able to ban registering or using a car with FSD in the state because of interstate commerce and transportion protections in the US Constitution. FSD is too compelling for a state to ban. The worst they can do is ban it until
They are satisfied with 10-40x better safety, or sufficient statistics to support anything better than 1.0x safer. Provable better safety is compelling for legislatures, and a career killer to vote against it. As evidence, look at THIS US House transportation committee voting unanimously to push through the SELF DRIVE ACT for review twice.
David J Borough

I just requested a refund on my fsd today. There is no way we will see robo taxi Teslas in NY. We don't allow anything here. We don't even allow turo.

I bought fsd and used it for the past two days. I drove about 140miles. My conclusion is that it doesn't really help with anything.

Autopilot is great but we already have that

Nav on auto pilot meh it required help merging multiple times. It almost stops on the highway trying to merge. It also missed an exit almost I had to take over. It's amazing but def a beta.

Lane changes are impressive that it does that when you ask but its really not that hard to do myself. Not worth 7 or 8k

Speed based lane changes are bad. It doesn't make good decisions. You are better off not using it.

Summon is flat out horrible. It's hilariously bad at routing. It's crazy slow. Get ready to watch your car drive all over the parking lot. Randomly hits the brakes hard over and over. Again your better off not using it. It's scary to use.

Auto park works but it's so slow I would just park myself. Perpendicular parking you need a car on each side which is meh. For some reason it parks sideways sometimes in spots or randomly gives up and says unavailable half way in.

Parallel parking works good actually but I cant justify 7 or 8k for that. I had a rental Prius that parallel parked itself just as good. This should be standard on a car like this.

Lastly stopping at traffic signals. Its not a feature it's a hindrance while driving. Really makes the driving experience annoying because it stops at everything even green lights. You have to keep hitting the gas or confirm stalk. The car will randomly slow before you hit it. It will also randomly think things are traffic lights. Bridges and overhead objects. While it's amazing the car doesn't run reds, it creates a bad driving experience. Your passengers will complain.

Conclusion I requested the refund and if there is some amazing update that makes it worth 8k in the next year I will think about it then.

It has to make my life easier though not harder.

Side note I love the model 3 but FSD is overpriced as it is. When this becomes worth using in 3-5 years there will be a lot of competition and much cooler cars. There may even be a new model 3.
 
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I agree with 90% of what you reported on. I love smart summons and use it all the time just to freak people out. Yeah its blocky, takes wrong routes, and inconsistent, but if you walk in front of it about 20-25' if will follow you like a lost puppy dog...i too have EAP and it is still in beta, but is getting better...
 

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I've been struggling with this because I'm getting a 2020 MS delivered next week. The thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in 2020 Auto Pilot only means the ability to stay in lane and automatically slow for traffic ahead while in cruise control. It actually had more features in the past like auto lane change using turn signal. Now you have to pay for FSD to get any of the advanced features. Since I am financing I've decided to roll the $7K into my purchase price. That is going to $8K in July and probably higher next year. I do think FSD will be a plus when I eventually sell the car. I did manage to snag a free lifetime Supercharging Raven at the new $5K discounted price so...
 
I purchased a 2018 P3D that was equipped with EAP, so outside of HW3 and the newly released traffic signal features I have everything else FSD currently has. That said, I can upgrade to FSD for $4k, but in the past it has been $3k and once as low as $2k.

When I saw the recent price reduction on new Teslas I checked right away to see if I could upgrade for less, but alas it remains at $4k for me to jump up. Right now I'm not seeing much value, but given that the $1k price increase on FSD is set to take place on July 1 I'm curious as to how that will impact EAP drivers.

Any thoughts on whether I should just grit my teeth and just pay the $4000, or should I hold out hope that it will one day be cheaper?
Call me "old fashioned", but I bought this car, and every other of the 60 or so I have owned, to drive...not to have it drive itself like a Disney ride.
 
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FSD will work pretty good someday, but it's got a long way to go and it's going to take a number of both hardware and software improvements. Figure it's like buying a Commodore 64 computer in 1982 and paying, in advance, for a modern day 4K 3D video game, that they say is in the works and coming out SOMEDAY and going to be super awesome, to play on your same Commodore 64 computer when it comes out 30 years later. But by then, obviously you are going to need some new hardware to use that software you paid for - way too early.
 
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I am on the same boat with you, although having upgraded from a LR Model 3 to P3D+ (sorry, not good with those acronyms) ... I got EAP and I agree with some folks here, EAP already have most of the FSD stuffs, to me is wether I want HW3 or not. Not sure 20x more processing power can add for Auto Pilot... maybe some AI/ML expert can chip in. And also if the car can full stop one day when they see red light, that can save my family lives... is that worth extra $4k?

And.. of course to complicate more, I love the Model Y (range, electric trunk and more cargo space), YTers already showing 270 miles range (for the Performance+21"Package) vs my crappy 210 miles... for a heavier car. So I am dabbling between Model Y performance, Cybertruck Performance for the range and Roadster later on ... god bless my earning skills in the next 10 years. I use it as a challenge.

Realistically, most likely P3D+ and a Cybertruck for long range... or Y P+ and a Cybetruck. Sorry drift off topic, damn ADD. But you get the point, there are always lots of ifs...
 
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I just requested a refund on my fsd today. There is no way we will see robo taxi Teslas in NY. We don't allow anything here. We don't even allow turo.

I bought fsd and used it for the past two days. I drove about 140miles. My conclusion is that it doesn't really help with anything.

Autopilot is great but we already have that

Nav on auto pilot meh it required help merging multiple times. It almost stops on the highway trying to merge. It also missed an exit almost I had to take over. It's amazing but def a beta.

Lane changes are impressive that it does that when you ask but its really not that hard to do myself. Not worth 7 or 8k

Speed based lane changes are bad. It doesn't make good decisions. You are better off not using it.

Summon is flat out horrible. It's hilariously bad at routing. It's crazy slow. Get ready to watch your car drive all over the parking lot. Randomly hits the brakes hard over and over. Again your better off not using it. It's scary to use.

Auto park works but it's so slow I would just park myself. Perpendicular parking you need a car on each side which is meh. For some reason it parks sideways sometimes in spots or randomly gives up and says unavailable half way in.

Parallel parking works good actually but I cant justify 7 or 8k for that. I had a rental Prius that parallel parked itself just as good. This should be standard on a car like this.

Lastly stopping at traffic signals. Its not a feature it's a hindrance while driving. Really makes the driving experience annoying because it stops at everything even green lights. You have to keep hitting the gas or confirm stalk. The car will randomly slow before you hit it. It will also randomly think things are traffic lights. Bridges and overhead objects. While it's amazing the car doesn't run reds, it creates a bad driving experience. Your passengers will complain.

Conclusion I requested the refund and if there is some amazing update that makes it worth 8k in the next year I will think about it then.

It has to make my life easier though not harder.

Side note I love the model 3 but FSD is overpriced as it is. When this becomes worth using in 3-5 years there will be a lot of competition and much cooler cars. There may even be a new model 3.

100% agree with you, FSD is NOT worth the money. I only wish I could request a refund, but I have had the car since April '19 (bought it with FSD package).

I have had it on a few road trips, and have tested Nav on AP on local freeways. First off, it WILL fail on EVERY engagement... and absolutely has (there has not been a single time I have tried to use it where at some point it had to dis-engage). The worst case was a time when I was showing a passenger (I warned him it will probably fail at some point in the trip); Nav on AP route took us to a point where it needed to exit one freeway and merge to another... all seemed to be going well, but last second it aborted and spit us into the bus lane of the first freeway (fortunately, the extra lane existed and was empty of traffic). Other times it failed when it encountered overpass shadows on a bright day (couldn't resolve the road anymore? Lots of issues when cameras try to deal with bright sun or other bright light sources.). A few times, it failed when a Semi Truck was just ahead and in the right lane. Yada, yada, yada...

I received the HW3 upgrade yesterday... it will be interesting to see if anything improves. However, I doubt I am going to regain and level of confidence no matter how well it performs. I will test for novelty, and on high alert... but no way will I ever trust. The extra stress of using it, in itself defeats the purpose.

FSD will not (I repeat, WILL NOT) happen in the life of this vehicle. Tesla is SO FAR away from Level 4 automation, I can't see Robo Taxi or any other FSD application happening in the life of this vehicle.

FSD option was biggest waste of CAD $9,200 ever. And Tesla, if you are listening, the focus on games and farts doesn't get me there..!!
 
I can empathize with a lot of the logic here for not getting FSD. When I had an M3 Performance it came with EAP and all the lane change, navigate, on/off-ramp goodness. It was great. Now that I have an MS LR+ I don't get EAP or lane changes or navigate. And that's okay for regular driving around town. When I miss those features is stop-and-go traffic and long road trips. I'm 80% sure I'll buy FSD for my current vehicle simply for the fact I used it on a multi-day road trip before and it was a game-changer.

If you like driving in all conditions (stop-and-go, not weather-based), only use it for short trips or city/town driving, have EAP, or don't have the money available I wouldn't recommend FSD.

On the flip side, if you can deal with some quirks/bugs on lane changes, regularly do long road trips, hate stop-and-go traffic, don't have EAP, and have the money, I'd say it's worth the upgrade.
 
I have a feeling, just a feeling, that there will be a big FSD update just before the price increase.

One theory is that the writing is on the wall and true FSD is years away and Tesla is trying to slow demand by increasing its price.

Another is that FSD is about to get a lot more real.
 
Generally perceiving a fair amount of dissatisfaction with FSD, etc. My reaction is, hey guys, don't you like to drive? I think the S is one of the most fantastic cars to drive under all conditions and on any roads, and I don't want to cede my driving pleasure to a machine. Do you?
I bought the Performance model specifically so I could drive it. However, there are times when it is AMAZING to have the car drive itself, like bumper to bumper traffic to and from work, or on long road trips. I love wide open roads where I can really get the most out of my Performance model, but that doesn't mean I don't value the ability for the car to drive itself in some cases. IMO, one of the primary reasons for buying a Tesla is the tech, and in this case some of the best tech involves FSD, or currently the process of getting to FSD.
 
I just requested a refund on my fsd today. There is no way we will see robo taxi Teslas in NY. We don't allow anything here. We don't even allow turo.

I bought fsd and used it for the past two days. I drove about 140miles. My conclusion is that it doesn't really help with anything.

Autopilot is great but we already have that

Nav on auto pilot meh it required help merging multiple times. It almost stops on the highway trying to merge. It also missed an exit almost I had to take over. It's amazing but def a beta.

Lane changes are impressive that it does that when you ask but its really not that hard to do myself. Not worth 7 or 8k

Speed based lane changes are bad. It doesn't make good decisions. You are better off not using it.

Summon is flat out horrible. It's hilariously bad at routing. It's crazy slow. Get ready to watch your car drive all over the parking lot. Randomly hits the brakes hard over and over. Again your better off not using it. It's scary to use.

Auto park works but it's so slow I would just park myself. Perpendicular parking you need a car on each side which is meh. For some reason it parks sideways sometimes in spots or randomly gives up and says unavailable half way in.

Parallel parking works good actually but I cant justify 7 or 8k for that. I had a rental Prius that parallel parked itself just as good. This should be standard on a car like this.

Lastly stopping at traffic signals. Its not a feature it's a hindrance while driving. Really makes the driving experience annoying because it stops at everything even green lights. You have to keep hitting the gas or confirm stalk. The car will randomly slow before you hit it. It will also randomly think things are traffic lights. Bridges and overhead objects. While it's amazing the car doesn't run reds, it creates a bad driving experience. Your passengers will complain.

Conclusion I requested the refund and if there is some amazing update that makes it worth 8k in the next year I will think about it then.

It has to make my life easier though not harder.

Side note I love the model 3 but FSD is overpriced as it is. When this becomes worth using in 3-5 years there will be a lot of competition and much cooler cars. There may even be a new model 3.

LOL, this is nearly word for word literally what I have written several times over the last few months. Including summarizing each of the individualy pieces. The key being your conclusion:

"It has to make my life easier". Right now, it doesn't. Even most of the features of EAP don't make things less stressful, they make them more. The ONLY one I miss having gone from EAP to regular AP is lane change on signal, because I hate having to re-engage AutoSteer every time I change lanes. Oh, and dumb summon. Miss that.
 
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i was given the opportunity to add FSD for 5K when I acquired M3PO. I declined the option. I absolutely LOVE the driving experience. This is a truly driver's car. If you leave all of the razzle-dazzle driving features turned off, the satisfaction is all there. A few of the EAP features are annoying at best and flat dangerous at worst (like on a crowded, fast-moving freeway). That it brakes heavily at the slightest hint of a space/time conflict when it detects other vehicles and objects (like during lane changes) seems to me to be a setup for being rear ended by some dweeb on their cellphone. That said, in stop and go traffic the feature is just plain indispensable.
 
Call me "old fashioned", but I bought this car, and every other of the 60 or so I have owned, to drive...not to have it drive itself like a Disney ride.

You're old fashioned or (and I know this might be a shocker) human beings are nuanced and not everything is black and white. I live in Southern California. We have some of the best driving roads in the world. We also have some of the worst traffic in the world. There are plenty of opportunities for me to drive my car aggressively. There are also plenty of opportunities where I'm sitting in traffic on the 101 for the 18th time in a week and would much prefer the car do the heavy lifting. The same goes with heavy traffic on city streets during rush hour. There's no benefit to me driving the car at that time. I'd rather do something else. The thing is, the two can co-exist.
 
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Generally perceiving a fair amount of dissatisfaction with FSD, etc. My reaction is, hey guys, don't you like to drive? I think the S is one of the most fantastic cars to drive under all conditions and on any roads, and I don't want to cede my driving pleasure to a machine. Do you?

I am on the same boat with you, although having upgraded from a LR Model 3 to P3D+ (sorry, not good with those acronyms) ... I got EAP and I agree with some folks here, EAP already have most of the FSD stuffs, to me is wether I want HW3 or not. Not sure 20x more processing power can add for Auto Pilot... maybe some AI/ML expert can chip in. And also if the car can full stop one day when they see red light, that can save my family lives... is that worth extra $4k?

100% agree with you, FSD is NOT worth the money. I only wish I could request a refund, but I have had the car since April '19 (bought it with FSD package).

I'm with you guys. In a certain other place we'd all be downvoted to oblivion XD I've only found it useful on non-busy highways, otherwise it brakes too often/hard to slow down, among other issues, and yes, I bought the car to be able to drive it!
 
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Also FSD is a complete farce and I can't reasonably bring myself to upgrade from EAP given how comically poor the car performs in just about any edge case. I don't think we'll ever see true level 5 full self driving with the current hardware suite and I LOVE Elon Musk but I think what Tesla has done with FSD is borderline, if not overt, fraud. 4 years now. Four years of missed deadlines, missing features, several hardware upgrades and what's my car do? It stops dead in it's tracks every time I bother summoning it in a parking lot and the few times it doesn't it instead performs like an inebriated 5 year old is behind the wheel. I have nothing but sympathy with those that feel like they've been duped.

EAP is amazing. Navigate on Autopilot is a stunner 95% of the time. It's that other 5% that really solidifies just how far away we are though. I hope I get a chance to eat my words. I'd love for my 3 to eventually have FSD.
 
I bought my AWD LR Model 3 with EAP. Added FSD later as it wasn’t available when I bought it in October 2018. Honestly, I don’t think it will ever work. There will be some incremental benefit to EAP, but I would bet all the money in the world that a Tesla Model 3 sold today will not be able to ever drive by itself without a driver. That said, a future version might and I respect what Tesla is doing along the way. I really hope to see it one day. But the current hardware won’t do it and the regulation is at least 20 years away. No joke.

Maybe in the next year FSD can stop at traffic lights. You will still have to touch the steering wheel every 20 seconds, but it will be a nice tough. Maybe it will even make turns for you. But it won’t self drive. They should have named it “Super Enhanced Autopilot”. But Elon is Elon...