EAP to FSD - bite the bullet now or risk it?

[SammichLover]

Maybe in the next year FSD can stop at traffic lights.

Drive about an hour South and it does.

Any word on where it is regulation wise in Canada?

 

[Seabreeze2112]

I tried to get a FSD refund. I didn't get anywhere. Good luck.

You can get a refund if you request it within 48hrs

 

[Seabreeze2112]

Well the good news is Elon stated that a car with FSD would be valued around 100k....so just think of what Tesla will give you on a trade in , in 5yrs with FSD

 

[TechOps]

I just requested a refund on my fsd today. There is no way we will see robo taxi Teslas in NY. We don't allow anything here. We don't even allow turo.

I bought fsd and used it for the past two days. I drove about 140miles. My conclusion is that it doesn't really help with anything.

[...]

This is an accurate assessment. I bought my MS75 in 2017 and paid $5k for EAP, which has some of the features of current FSD.

All of those features (lane changes, autopark, summon) are things I consider gimmicks but not really helpful in their current state. The only reason to buy FSD is if you want to subsidize development of FSD software. Which I'm not knocking, that's a laudable goal. But from a money perspective, base AP is really where the value is and it's currently included in the price.

 

[P3dStealth]

From your words, one gets the idea that you're not a Tesla fan, and my first thought is to tell you to sell your car because you'll never appreciate it for what it is - warts and all.

This is NOT the first, nor even the tenth thread where people are complaining about FSD. It would be nice to have a forum that could be searched so that someone could read others' comments and not repeat the same things....

On the other hand, P3dStealth, you come from New York, a state which is not as electric car friendly as others. Tesla has had mighty battles with the government over whether they can even SELL cars in the state without a 'dealer network'. And your viewpoint regarding the likelihood that a form of self-driving will be allowed makes me think that not much has changed in the six years since I was there.

As a retired IT guy, I want you to consider the astounding odds faced by Tesla programmers. It's easy for you to drive the car because you have a supercomputer between your ears, eyes that have a wide view of things in front of you, a huge cache of objects you identify instantly, reflexes that will permit you to operate controls semi-automatically, and so on. The task of the programmers is to figure out how to take Artificial Intelligence (AI) and train it to be able to do what you do - or at least close. In some regards, those AI programmers have to stop after the basics are in place and release the software into the wild, then gather more information from the real world experiences before going forward. That's 'BETA', and the information comes in in waves. Then, the AI programmers will figure out how to train the car to do the things it does more naturally. Autosteer is a good example: it was pretty blocky when released, but has smoothed out to get really close to what we do naturally. NOA is going through the same expansion. There are videos showing it working perfectly, changing freeways at the right intersection, exiting from them and driving in town, then parking. Under the right circumstances, everything needed to do this - for the route chosen - is already programmed. And every time you get an upgrade, you'll notice that there's also some bug fixes, taking care of the flaws or perceived flaws in the existing programs or adding sophistication to a long-standing feature, like Autosteer. Give the new release time to collect the information needed to improve and digest it. I think recognizing traffic controls and stopping at lights and signs is really basic, and annoying, because the software will stop at EVERY control point, whether you see it or not. It's a pain to drive around town and eel the car slowing down for a green light, then have to tap the accelerator or flip the stalk. But it will get there. Give it six months or so.

Enough rambllng from me.

If FSD is functioning in 6 months I will pay 8k for it.

I'm not going to sell the car because I don't want FSD as is right now it does everything else great. I'm also not going to consider programmers and tesla struggles in NY and give them money for it. Trust me Tesla isn't selling cars in NY to be noble. It's to make money. Same with theprogrammers.

I do agree with you that it will get better though.

Also I'm from San Diego. I live in NY now.

The model 3 is a great car even without FSD. It's more fun to drive without anyway. I'd rather not sell it unless maybe for a model S. Man that thing is nice.

 

[Stv1der]

I just requested a refund on my fsd today. There is no way we will see robo taxi Teslas in NY. We don't allow anything here. We don't even allow turo.

I bought fsd and used it for the past two days. I drove about 140miles. My conclusion is that it doesn't really help with anything.

Autopilot is great but we already have that

Nav on auto pilot meh it required help merging multiple times. It almost stops on the highway trying to merge. It also missed an exit almost I had to take over. It's amazing but def a beta.

Lane changes are impressive that it does that when you ask but its really not that hard to do myself. Not worth 7 or 8k

Speed based lane changes are bad. It doesn't make good decisions. You are better off not using it.

Summon is flat out horrible. It's hilariously bad at routing. It's crazy slow. Get ready to watch your car drive all over the parking lot. Randomly hits the brakes hard over and over. Again your better off not using it. It's scary to use.

Auto park works but it's so slow I would just park myself. Perpendicular parking you need a car on each side which is meh. For some reason it parks sideways sometimes in spots or randomly gives up and says unavailable half way in.

Parallel parking works good actually but I cant justify 7 or 8k for that. I had a rental Prius that parallel parked itself just as good. This should be standard on a car like this.

Lastly stopping at traffic signals. Its not a feature it's a hindrance while driving. Really makes the driving experience annoying because it stops at everything even green lights. You have to keep hitting the gas or confirm stalk. The car will randomly slow before you hit it. It will also randomly think things are traffic lights. Bridges and overhead objects. While it's amazing the car doesn't run reds, it creates a bad driving experience. Your passengers will complain.

Conclusion I requested the refund and if there is some amazing update that makes it worth 8k in the next year I will think about it then.

It has to make my life easier though not harder.

Side note I love the model 3 but FSD is overpriced as it is. When this becomes worth using in 3-5 years there will be a lot of competition and much cooler cars. There may even be a new model 3.

I think I may have had mine too long to get the money back, 3 months and 3,000 miles. Interested to see if you get a refund. Totally agree not worth the money. In the UK most of the advanced features are not available, namely Stopping at Traffic Lights, Auto Summon and automatic lane changes on freeways. All lane changes have to be initiated by the indicators, the autopilot does that!

 

[trak0r]

I just requested a refund on my fsd today. There is no way we will see robo taxi Teslas in NY. We don't allow anything here. We don't even allow turo.

I bought fsd and used it for the past two days. I drove about 140miles. My conclusion is that it doesn't really help with anything.

Autopilot is great but we already have that

Nav on auto pilot meh it required help merging multiple times. It almost stops on the highway trying to merge. It also missed an exit almost I had to take over. It's amazing but def a beta.

Lane changes are impressive that it does that when you ask but its really not that hard to do myself. Not worth 7 or 8k

Speed based lane changes are bad. It doesn't make good decisions. You are better off not using it.

Summon is flat out horrible. It's hilariously bad at routing. It's crazy slow. Get ready to watch your car drive all over the parking lot. Randomly hits the brakes hard over and over. Again your better off not using it. It's scary to use.

Auto park works but it's so slow I would just park myself. Perpendicular parking you need a car on each side which is meh. For some reason it parks sideways sometimes in spots or randomly gives up and says unavailable half way in.

Parallel parking works good actually but I cant justify 7 or 8k for that. I had a rental Prius that parallel parked itself just as good. This should be standard on a car like this.

Lastly stopping at traffic signals. Its not a feature it's a hindrance while driving. Really makes the driving experience annoying because it stops at everything even green lights. You have to keep hitting the gas or confirm stalk. The car will randomly slow before you hit it. It will also randomly think things are traffic lights. Bridges and overhead objects. While it's amazing the car doesn't run reds, it creates a bad driving experience. Your passengers will complain.

Conclusion I requested the refund and if there is some amazing update that makes it worth 8k in the next year I will think about it then.

It has to make my life easier though not harder.

Side note I love the model 3 but FSD is overpriced as it is. When this becomes worth using in 3-5 years there will be a lot of competition and much cooler cars. There may even be a new model 3.

I'm not surprised by your experience and opinion on the matter. Hopefully they will give you a refund. Tesla needs to be upfront about how far away their FSD really is from implemented. By the time they deliver what they promise They will have raised the price to over 20 grand.

 

[mrbulk]

I too have an EAP equipped vehicle. My wife always says to wait on things, they get cheaper. But with Tesla, and at this rate, I will likely be waiting till I am at death's door right when FSD Level 5 drops to $1.98...

Life's short. Live Tall.

 

[Theflash95]

I love Tesla and I love my Model S, but buying FSD is a waste of money. I have EAP and while that's great on the highway it still has some issues, several of which have already been covered by others. Until true Full Self Driving is a reality it's not worth it to buy it when it's just piecemeal. So... it stops at traffic lights now, okay... but you're still taking over to let it know when to go. So autopilot is driving the car, now you, you tell it to go, autopilot back on, oh but now you have to turn, autopilot off, you turn, autopilot back on... what a pain in the ass. Also, I observe lots of edge cases on my drive to work... lines in the road that are faded, stop signs obscured by a tree branch, people/cyclists/a car blocking part of my lane. There is a 4 way stop outside of my neighborhood and even human drivers can't figure out when to go. True FSD where you get in, plug in an address and sit back is a LONG WAY OFF. The changes Tesla has made since I bought my car in 2017 have been great, but there is a long way to go... if we see true hands-off FSD in the next 10 years I'll be amazed.

 

[brandonc85]

It would be nice to have the ability to buy certain functions. Like say I just wanted Auto Park, I could buy that for $1500. Then FSD is $4000, Summon is $1000.

would be kinda nice.

 

[GTIceman]

I skipped on the FSD when it was $2k, had something else come up at that time that was more pressing. I have no belief, okay maybe 0.00001% that we will see Level 4 any time soon. The reason I would pay is just to have HW3, but not at the current price.

I appreciate the technical work that needs to go into getting to Level 4 and the amount that has happened so far. Seeing stop signs, crosswalks, traffic lights are all amazing features and will absolutely help with safety as the system gets smarter.

I also think it is important to keep this thread on the benefits from EAP to FSD, I would absolutely have bought FSD if EAP was not an option.

 

[mitsits]

I skipped on the FSD when it was $2k, had something else come up at that time that was more pressing. I have no belief, okay maybe 0.00001% that we will see Level 4 any time soon. The reason I would pay is just to have HW3, but not at the current price.

I appreciate the technical work that needs to go into getting to Level 4 and the amount that has happened so far. Seeing stop signs, crosswalks, traffic lights are all amazing features and will absolutely help with safety as the system gets smarter.

I also think it is important to keep this thread on the benefits from EAP to FSD, I would absolutely have bought FSD if EAP was not an option.

Agreed - it seems like whenever any question about FSD is brought up it turns into a debate on whether or not the features are worth the money. In my case and yours, the only things we don't have are HW3 and signal/stopsign recognition. If it were 3k right now I'd probably bite and pay for it but at the same time if FSD does increase to $8k next month and the upgrade from EAP to FSD goes up another 1k I'll be really annoyed, so maybe I'll just do it now. Still debating...

 

[GTIceman]

Agreed - it seems like whenever any question about FSD is brought up it turns into a debate on whether or not the features are worth the money. In my case and yours, the only things we don't have are HW3 and signal/stopsign recognition. If it were 3k right now I'd probably bite and pay for it but at the same time if FSD does increase to $8k next month and the upgrade from EAP to FSD goes up another 1k I'll be really annoyed, so maybe I'll just do it now. Still debating...

I just don't know that it is worth it. Now if Elon wanted a quick influx he should release a huge update like the week before or a few days. A bunch will jump on it and rave the. It will hit the news and some will get in before and some after but with only a $1k bump more won't feel totally shafted, which you shouldn't feel anyway.

Like others have said if it becomes $8k and it goes full level 4 and is approved in states(FL it is already) then I may buy it and say man I was stupid buuuut I knew what I was waiting on.

 

[Mike K]

Remember everyone grabbing FSD to get smart summon? These cool looking features end up being parlor tricks. If owners are being honest, I would posit that an overwhelming majority used smart summon several times upon it's release and have used it a handful of times since. It's legit embarrassing to have to walk up to your car after it fails to pull out of a parking space and decides to park itself blocking the lane of traffic, confused and bewildered.

It's the type of feature where if you can't depend on it to work at least 85 - 90% of the time then you simply end up not using it. Stoplight/ sign recognition sounds like it works but it's exhausting to use. It's the first "cool" FSD I've had literally no interest in using because it looks like it makes the driving experience worse. If I'm driving the car I'd rather just drive the car.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

unpopular opinion: a truly FSD "robotaxi" capability in the *current* Model 3 / Y / S / X with relying on optical camera sensors only is not certifiable with the regulatory authorities... my autopilot doesn't do too well when the camera sensors are blinded by low winter sun or in pouring rain...

 

[SammichLover]

my autopilot doesn't do too well when the camera sensors are blinded by low winter sun or in pouring rain...

Unlikely to be a full barrier to certification for some level of rider-only use. Waymo’s current rider-only testing on public streets only runs under certain weather conditions. LIDAR, on the frequency they use anyway, has very real visibility limitations, too.

Expect fair-weather-only AP to proceed all-weather.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Unlikely to be a full barrier to certification for some level of rider-only use. Waymo’s current rider-only testing on public streets only runs under certain weather conditions. LIDAR, on the frequency they use anyway, has very real visibility limitations, too.

Expect fair-weather-only AP to proceed all-weather.

so when there's a thunderstorm the robotaxi will pull over and tell the customers to chill and wait for 30min?
not having LIDAR is problem...

 

[SammichLover]

so when there's a thunderstorm the robotaxi will pull over and tell the customers to chill and wait for 30min?
not having LIDAR is problem...

Waymo is parked for the thunderstorm & snow, too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LIDAR, same as it’s EMF neighbour visible light, has issues with solids and liquids suspended in the air if they aren’t translucent enough at the given frequency chosen. The current chosen frequencies are readily absorbed by water.

PS Micro weather forecasts have gotten very, very good to help mitigate these delays.

 

[boiler81]

so when there's a thunderstorm the robotaxi will pull over and tell the customers to chill and wait for 30min?

Don't forget, without a heater to keep the radar sensor clear, AP also goes offline in the snow.

 

[Knightshade]

Don't forget, without a heater to keep the radar sensor clear, AP also goes offline in the snow.

Model Y has heated radar.

(which seems to be yet another admission previous cars don't "really" have all HW needed for FSD)